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What's the future of OUR trade then?

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izitme

Guest
Sir Salty

I was about to jump in with both feet and say at least SNCO contollers have some experience to assist them. Then i realised that some of them are only serving 4 years to get to JATCC, further to this I know that Direct Entry SNCO Controllers are being considerd.

So I'm off to slit me wrists
 
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F

FOMP

Guest
izitme

So why conduct the station visits then, and tell everyone you need to keep all your instructors when PTC tried the 15% manning cuts last year, as you said you needed all the instructors for the new course.

Come on, get the guys at Halton (the course content validators for TG9) on your side and push things a bit. :confused:
 

SirSaltyHelmet

Thoroughly Nice Chap
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Why do they have to talk about the benefits of RIS over RAS in the bar? Whats wrong with normal "bloke" things and "bird" things for that matter?

Get a life and get back to how you guys used to be!!
 
S

Standards

Guest
MrCheekyMonkey said:
TTF wasn't even mentioned !!! how does that defend the reputaion then?

Thought you said you had read the posts. All of them mind, not just the ones from FOMz.

Standards!
 
U

User Name

Guest
Yes I think we are all now just beating a deceased quadraped. Lets just keep having a go at the Ops Officers ....or as I like to refer to them.... Commissioned Oxygen Thiefs. Oh and don't forget fast trackers.... its so bad that even the baby SNCO Aircrew are calling them plastic Sergeants !!!! I object to some snot nose 4 year SNCO telling me what to do !!!!!
 
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Voice Of Reason

Guest
Could a Flight Ops Officer please tell me how they feel about their trade, it's all very well defending each others corner, but it cant all be bad?
How do you feel about splitting the branch Ops/ATC?
What do you think of the quality of the LACs, Cpls, FOMs? Be very careful here!
Did you get the impression that your branch is full of "Failed Other Trades" and is this detrimental to the Branches name?
What steps can you take to get a better image of your branch and can TG9 personnel help.

(Hopefully this will change the banter in a different direction, rather than bitch-slapping, FOMZ/Standards take note)
 
O

Old Skool Git

Guest
FOMP said:
I would like to know the extensive list of stations visited in prep for the new syllabus can anyone tell me where they were...please?

Solutions:

Revise and update the FOTF course NOW, no more excuses lets get on with it and lengthen the course if you think you need to.

From talking to my contact I think the list of stations were in no particular order: Brize, Coningsby, Waddington, ScATCC, Swanwick, Leeming, Linton, Odiham, Benson, Lyneham, Marham, Northolt, Cranwell, Valley, Leuchars, Cottesmore, Kinloss................there maybe more but I think the guys got around the Bazaars and looking at the list, looked at all sides of the trade from the heavies to mud movers to air defenders to JHF. Hopefully they might be able to look at the course and have a lot more up-dated info in their course. But again they I'm sure they would agree that they need an extension of at least 4-6 weeks. Then again it's getting passed the powers that be.

Talking of promotions I know that the guys at FOTF are pulling their collective hair out over the standard of JNCO's. The problem is they have no skills what so ever and as THEY all play game on TMT there is nothing the guys at FOTF can do to boot them off, which IMHO is a shame and it would make all newly promoted cpl's sit up and think about what they are taking on as a Cpl and NOT just being a higher paid SAC.
 
I

izitme

Guest
MrCheekyMonkey said:
Could you mske TMT a pass / fail course, I doubt it. Its something that I might like to see though. QUOTE]

Cheeky,

Do your homework mate, people have failed TMT in the past - it is a pass fail course
 
Z

ZzZzZz

Guest
Waste !

Waste !

Here's an idea, why not get rid of this NVQ and Key Skills crap that we waste valuable time on at TTF and spend more time concentrating on topics that would help you do your job instead.

Also, going back a bit now, surely splitting the course into ops and atc specific courses would surely make the rift between the two grow even further.
I don't think it is right to say atc don't need to know about flight plans etc., the more we know about each others jobs the more we will understand and stop moaning at each other.
 
J

Jag Fag

Guest
FOMP said:
..... so they can do the caravan and demonstrate how really good they are and give them some responsibility to show leadership skills.

What leadership skills? How many people are being led? It must be crowded in that caravan, they must be all fighting over who is going to fire the flare when the jet's on final approach with wheels still up!
 
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Voice Of Reason said:
Could a Flight Ops Officer please tell me how they feel about their trade, it's all very well defending each others corner, but it cant all be bad?
How do you feel about splitting the branch Ops/ATC?
What do you think of the quality of the LACs, Cpls, FOMs? Be very careful here!
Did you get the impression that your branch is full of "Failed Other Trades" and is this detrimental to the Branches name?
What steps can you take to get a better image of your branch and can TG9 personnel help.

(Hopefully this will change the banter in a different direction, rather than bitch-slapping, FOMZ/Standards take note)

Someone mentioned earlier about the start of TTF being for both ATC and Ops and then splitting for specialist training. This idea is valid and is what it is like for Regiment Officers. You do the hell which is JROC and then do further training for a Field Sqn or Rapier Sqn and it seems to work.

The quality of LACs, Cpls, FOMs etc is a varied as ever. The big problem is with ever reducing staffing there is both less time for 'further training' for the weaker ones, nor time to sort out problems caused by them. You cant win!! Across all the branches and ranks more and more people just want to do their bit then go home, the RAF is no longer a way of life it is just a job. How many times are quiet nightshifts just used for DVDs, pizza and getting your head down? We have probably all done it. Nightshifts present and ideal time to sit down and carry out further training. Sadly, the pirate copy if this years blockbuster, a deep pan hawian and an early stck always wins.

I have spoken before about the Re-brancer and reselectees, a lot of the jibes are unfounded (and this is coming from someone who suffered harshly under and ATC re-brancher). After all it is PMA or OASC that allow people to change brances/reselect for whatever reason, it is not the individuals choice. If the canditate is unsuitable at the job they should not be allowed to re-branch (etc). The procedures are not significantly different from those joing a branch from the start. So in fact reslecting/re-branching is a fresh start, if people bring in usefull previous it is a bonus, just like some joining the RAF after working in civy ops etc. Once working in FOTS, like for all other people, it is the ROs who are responsible for mantaining standards, training etc. Very few people are deliberately bad at there jobs, if the ROs and Flight Commanders are letting them get away with being sh#t, it is their fault. Of course this is where we could stray into the 'well if there RO was actually a Flt Ops officer, then it would not happen' argument, but lets save that for another thread. People need to stop being so narrow minded on this issue.

The answer to all the problems is very simple, teamwork. The branch, in fact the RAF has to modernise fast to cope with the years ahead. To do this we all need to work together, the US term 'One team, one fight' seems apt at this point. In terms of policy the RAF tends to be re-active rather than proactive and until that changes progress will be slow. Banter is all well and good, and i have done more than my fair share in the past. Now is the time for everyone to work together, help each other as much as you can. For those that are beyond help, ROs need to be fair but firm. Get your paperwork right and let these people know they have to improve or else, if the don't improve then it has to be goodbye.
 
F

FOMP

Guest
For Jag Fag,

You obviously don't know much about TRCC Controllers do you pal, so I will ignore the sarcasm and help you out a bit.

To be allowed to operate solo in the TRC (Truck Runway Control), 3Gp insist that the Controller must hold a minimum rank of Cpl (even though the APs say that all he/she has to be is a suitably qualified FOA!). So conversly when we train and then use a fast tracker in the van then we must give him/her acting rank of Cpl. Now, as we don't employ them all the time in the van the acting rank allows us to train and use them as JNCO IC the Shift, ergo they get the opportunity to demonstrate their leadership and managerial skills! Simple really isn't it?

For everyone else

A bit of extra gen for those interested, the pull for FOAs to apply for the chance to do the JATCC was/is a once only deal apparently (someone please explain to me how the fact that if you are on an ATC Tower LUE and you get free driving lessons and eventually a licence but if you are in Ops and the LUE doesn't provide for free driving lessons and consequently you have no driving licence YET and as such are ineligable to apply for the JATCC stream; squares with equal opportunities, because it obviously doesn't does it?). However, watch this space as the latest Contact Mag describes the prefered option for future controller selection from the ranks as being direct entry Sgts (again).

Here we go again, those of us who were around in the mid 90s will remember that this was MATO's (as they were then called) original prefered option when revising the SNCO controller stream. The AFB kicked it back as they felt that only Aircrew SNCOs should be recruited as direct entry (for their own reasons of course). Well here we go again, are 3 Gp going to say that the Fast Tracker idea didn't work, they gave it a really good try didn't they! Lets not mention the fact that they didn't fully support it with guidance and control from when it was introduced and allowed units to devise their own ways of handling them. The Fast tracker scheme didn't fail, the management of it did, now are they (3Gp) going to go back to the AFB and say we told you we wanted direct entrants now that the alternative didn't work can we go back to plan A please?

What a flaming mess, stay around long enough in this trade and you will surely see history repeating itself over and over again. I'm getting too old, grisly and depressed, maybe it's time to go, or would that be just giving in.
 
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