We Know it is broken but how can we fix it

[True Blue Jack]

Oh how little of the world you must have seen, when your balls drop and you reflect on that "inspired" peace of prose you will hopefully realise what an arse you just made of yourself! Has it occured to your tiny interlect that the people in these jobs have to have had the experience that you deem the be so pivotal to write the AP's, provide the feedback to technical enquiries etc for chumps like you!? No? Didn't think so!
PS I assume the same inspired policy would apply to your own docs cell?

So why are they starting to put clerks back into docs cells just months after deeming them unnecessary?

Sadly, what started as a general "how can we fix the RAF" thread has - as ever - degenerated into a techie vs the rest playground squabble. After all this time I shouldn't be so surprised.

 

[chiefy]

That will never happen because the forecast savings from it were used to pay FRIs to Harrier Pilots. Given that the "saving" has already been spent, there would need to be a huge injection of cash to revert to something resembling our former pay system. That's without including the cash that would have to be spent on top just to change JPA. I think Pay 2000 is here to stay I'm afraid. So we will continue to have debates like this, we will continue to lose good people because the jump on promotion is now almost negligible (And therefore more are turning promotion down), and the animosity between various trades will increase.

I think you may be surprised! At the moment the RAF are only 1.8% short of their trained strength, the Army is 4.87% short and the RN 4.98%. However that doesn't reflect the true story, nobody except perhaps the MoD know how those figures pan out across the services but it is thought that a large percentage of those deficits are in the technician/ engineering areas.

There is a recession around the corner, people always join in droves during times of financial strife, as unemployment rises recruitment will pick up but.......... one of the area's that is and will remain largely unaffected by any recession or economic slowdown is engineering: power stations/ cars/ trains/ aircraft/ oil refineries/ pharmaceutical plants etc etc not to mention Olympic Stadiums and Nuclear Reactors all still need to be built and maintained but not everyone needs a receptionist. waitress, HR clerk etc or thay can afford to lose a couple to save a few quid. We are already seeing this in the financial services sector where 4000 jobs have been lost this month in the East Midlands alone. It's the way of the world, the talents of engineers and technicians and their value is about to go up while the value of support workers and those in the service support industries is about to hit rock bottom, watch out for more "retention initiatives" in the near future for the more experienced technicians and engineers.

This isn't a dig at the shiney's either, just a perspective from civvy street where there is a real tangible skills shortage.

 

[Dilligaf Jagman]

Yes you were, he was responding to people working at IPT's and eng records who are Engineers not Shineys. Read the posts again and you will understand.

Thank-you Sospan!
plainsailing, I ain't generally a miserable fecker, honest! Although I can probably guess which post gives you that idea. I will only bite if anyone posts uninformed or ignorant opinion as fact. If I know better or disagree I will say so, that's what forums are all about. I would like to think a couple of my posts have spread a lot of light to the parties concerned. Some of them you have to read between the lines for reasons of persec but I try to help where I can.
TTFN

DJ

 

[3wheeledtechie]

Not digging at you Sospan, just sick of the techies that think the RAF owes them a living. Here's news for you all - YOU CHOSE THE JOB, WIPE YOUR BACKSIDES AND GET ON WITH IT!

I take it you are a shiney. If so I don't know how you can have failed to notice the queue that leads to the Terminations Clerk's desk, comprised of all trades, but in no small part techies. We have had enough, we are leaving. Whilst you may not like the fact, if you decide to leave, someone can be recruited trained and fill a slot as a shiney, chef, gunner etc in months not years. The lead time on getting an effective techie is years, as most AMMs will not get the experience or be taught the practical knowledge to fix snags. At some point if enough of us go, the RAF will recognise this and seek to address it by the only proven retention technique - more money.

 

[Weebl]

Talking about trades and money, does anybody else find it ironic that while they up other trades money as a retention tool, all 'techies' (except Armourers) now joining the RAF do so as AMM's and as such are low pay band until they get FT.

Basically if you tested well at the AFCO and elect to join the RAF in a trade that requires a long trade training, you get paid less.

Brilliant.

 

[Dilligaf Jagman]

Getting back on track

Getting back on track

We probably all agree the devil is ultimately lack of money. Not enough for more people, those that are left deploy more, get pi**ed off - leave, less people, who deploy more, money not enough to attract new peeps etc
So if the MOD need our budget to go further why not push the Treasury/Customs to make all military expenditure VAT free? No doubt there one of you with the facts out there and it probably to simplistic, but just a thought!

 

[Scaley brat]

...or even only pay techies who actually fix aircraft. Those stiffs in Eng Records & Wyton should be on the lower pay scale as they are merely clerks without talent. I bet there are somke serious fish biting on this one

You fancy your chances in a board of enquiry with your paperwork then do you ? Fill it it all in correctly with no mistakes ? You can be honest, no-one knows who you are.
If the Air force in general is anything like my little part of the pond, the paperwork has gone right to sh1t. Missing signatures, incorrect hours SNOW's not registered on LITS, exchanges not carried out for lifed assets
If Eng records are a pain in your ar$e, it might just be because your bending or breaking the rules. Remember the books ? they aren't there to help you do your job, they are there to prosecute you with when it all goes pete Tong.

 

[True Blue Jack]

I take it you are a shiney. If so I don't know how you can have failed to notice the queue that leads to the Terminations Clerk's desk, comprised of all trades, but in no small part techies. We have had enough, we are leaving. Whilst you may not like the fact, if you decide to leave, someone can be recruited trained and fill a slot as a shiney, chef, gunner etc in months not years. The lead time on getting an effective techie is years, as most AMMs will not get the experience or be taught the practical knowledge to fix snags. At some point if enough of us go, the RAF will recognise this and seek to address it by the only proven retention technique - more money.

That's right. Every time someone disagrees with a techie he must be a shiney. Think about NAIDOY's username and you'll realise he is no more a shiney than you are.

Funnily enough, at the secret Lincolnshire airbase where I live techies are leaving because they are no longer doing any technical work. If the computer tells them there is a fault they replace the relevant box. Job done, satis. Except they are not very satis.

 

[Weebl]

I think you may be surprised! At the moment the RAF are only 1.8% short of their trained strength,

Yes, just like my Sqn is at 115% manning (even though we were 50-70 people short at our recent manning review (different figures relate to different tasking load))

Still, Numbers are great, they allow the drafters who came down Monday on a visit to give us a brief, presumably to persuade us that they really were managing our careers and prevent a few PVR's to, and I sh1t you not this is a direct quote made while smirking in response to a question regarding our manning levels 'Not my problem'

On reflection slightly unfair, only one of them smirked, the other looked embarrased.

 

[Webbo]

Talking about trades and money, does anybody else find it ironic that while they up other trades money as a retention tool, all 'techies' (except Armourers) now joining the RAF do so as AMM's and as such are low pay band until they get FT.

Basically if you tested well at the AFCO and elect to join the RAF in a trade that requires a long trade training, you get paid less.

Brilliant.

What a fcuking brillant answer. Honestly mate I applaud you. We (Techies) are the FORCE in Air Force. It pains me as a Line Controller to expect the AMM's to do what we ask of them, for the pittance that they are paid, and they are still the first one's questioned when a jet piles in.........Manslaughter only happens to Techies, give us the money to live with that.

 

[chiefy]

Yes, just like my Sqn is at 115% manning (even though we were 50-70 people short at our recent manning review (different figures relate to different tasking load))

Still, Numbers are great, they allow the drafters who came down Monday on a visit to give us a brief, presumably to persuade us that they really were managing our careers and prevent a few PVR's to, and I sh1t you not this is a direct quote made while smirking in response to a question regarding our manning levels 'Not my problem'

On reflection slightly unfair, only one of them smirked, the other looked embarrased.

No smirking here, I worked the numbers out from the Defence Analytical Services website, they wouldn't like to make it nice and simple so merely give the raw data and some not very useful charts and graphs. Interestingly I noticed that in May somewhere in the region of 3880 personnel left the RAF and only 2770 joined so I think that 1.8% is about to near the level of the other two services (I didn't include Officers in any of those stats). I note that the Army have agreed to start recruiting in Youth Detention Centres from this summer, I think that also tells a story.

 

[Scaley brat]

Yes, just like my Sqn is at 115% manning.

Lies, damned lies and statistics mate !! The trouble is they want a cheap fighting force. Two dichotomy's about as far apart as LEAN and QA.

 

[monobrow]

...or even only pay techies who actually fix aircraft. Those stiffs in Eng Records & Wyton should be on the lower pay scale as they are merely clerks without talent. I bet there are somke serious fish biting on this one

Nice hide there, and just before full soapbox mode was engaged....

So why are they starting to put clerks back into docs cells just months after deeming them unnecessary?

Because it's cheaper, and thats all.

 

[Scaley brat]

Nice hide there, and just before full soapbox mode was engaged....

Bollox ! DT_Xtremez_17:
Nice spot Mono, shame I didn't see it. DT_Xtremez_42:
Anyone got a band-aid ? DT_Xtremez_14:


Baaaaa, do I feel sheepish ! DT_Xtremez_06:

 

[POB]

Guys, this is one of the best discussions that we have had for a while, PLEASE keep on subject, don't let this descend into a slagging thread. If you start to fight amongst yourselves there will be deletions.

Thank you!

 

[shoutingwind]

(i know this is a lyneham thing but...)
GIVE US DEPLOYED FLIGHT STATUS!!!! Being the longest detachment in the gulf (consant since 2002- no breaks at all, generally with 10-14 aircraft deployed and about 90 engineers, or 1/4 of the total engineering manpower) and b*gger all to show for it, give us enough manpower so we aren't deployed 5-6 months a year, on guard for a month (and working on our week off) AND doing every parade/ detail. $git job that comes our way.

 

[muttywhitedog]

Oh how little of the world you must have seen, when your balls drop and you reflect on that "inspired" peace of prose you will hopefully realise what an arse you just made of yourself! Has it occured to your tiny interlect that the people in these jobs have to have had the experience that you deem the be so pivotal to write the AP's, provide the feedback to technical enquiries etc for chumps like you!? No? Didn't think so!
PS I assume the same inspired policy would apply to your own docs cell?

Honey, I think we'll be eating fish tonight - I got a biggun!

 

[muttywhitedog]

Nice hide there, and just before full soapbox mode was engaged....

Because it's cheaper, and thats all.

I thankyou.

Mind you, I very nearly bit with the post about merging the clerks - just thought I'd see how many teccies I could catch out with their own trick!

 

[tommo9999]

I think you may be surprised!

Go on then surprise me. Pay 2000 is being binned is it, 'cos that would really surprise me.

 

[Sospan]

I thankyou.

Mind you, I very nearly bit with the post about merging the clerks - just thought I'd see how many teccies I could catch out with their own trick!

Yes, you almost caught me at my own game!

Back on subject.
A couple of suggestions that wont cost a penny...

Harmonise fitness tests across both sexes.

Start to get our identify back by everybody wearing blues when not deployed. (even in public)