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We Know it is broken but how can we fix it
- Thread starter Bitburger
- Start date
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gemarriott
Guest
speaking from a distance isn't this part of the problem? AT, rotary and fast jet are all being pushed beyond what should be expected of them. Back after the Falklands war it was "the phixers" who got the sh1tty end of the stick because they were the guys with the skills to fix the aircraft in theatre with a few AT guys. The 2 current wars are draining the strength of the AT fleet and rotary fleet but also the Tonka and harrier boys are suffering too with the withdrawl of the Jags and the introduction of typhoon cutting the numbers of fast jets available to deploy. Lets not forget also the Nimrod guys who also get their share of the sh1tty end of the stick.
Bottom line, what I'm trying to say is overstretch is fcuking you all over.
Who said that ?
Implied by 'I wasnt saying that a FS should be on a par with a Capt'. What I'm saying is that, if anything it should be the other way around.
I reality I am sure in most cases a FS will bring far more to the table with 30 years experience, but what TBJ was saying was in the joint environment we needed to head up ourselves correctly so we are not out ranked by the Army.
I personally think there are too many Junior officers in slots a SNCO could fill.
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...or even only pay techies who actually fix aircraft. Those stiffs in Eng Records & Wyton should be on the lower pay scale as they are merely clerks without talent. I bet there are somke serious fish biting on this one
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NotAnIDOYet
Guest
Off TopicThought you techy types all did the same trade training. Postings after that are not necessarily the fault of the individual.
Back to pay, why is there only one pay scale for the officer types?
Better tax breaks for those on operations. Better welfare package for those away.
The list goes on but most things are at the bequest of the beancounters and as we all know if you give something you have to take something away.
Single pay scale to match the officers is a good start, don't care whether you are trained to fix pointy things or fry eggs. We all have our part to play. That might give us some money to pay for the better things in life!
So after 22 years as a trained technician why stay in the service only to collect the same salary as an egg fryer ?
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NotAnIDOYet
Guest
Some of the hardest working people I have ever deployed with have been chefs. I would also reckon they are the closest trade to meltdown with OOA turnaround and the ongoing fiasco of CRL contracting.
My thinking is that if people are in the forces for the pay alone then maybe, just maybe they are in the wrong place.
It's just an honest opinion mind!
Well I think you will find that most folk that have completed their 22 ARE leaving due to many reasons and pay is one of them.
OOA is not a problems as everyone somewhere dangerous gets various rates of LSSA and Op allowance so that throws the OOA pay thing out the window.
What we are on about is relative to pay outside and I for one HAVE put in my papers and pay is just one of the many reasons.
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NotAnIDOYet
Guest
So the poorly paid/motivated/trained chef, as you would advocate, can't be bothered to wash his hands after a screaming dose of the two-bobs, then goes on to cook breakfast and passes on his e.coli bacteria to the rest of the DOB. Where is the responsibility level now?
I'm not either a chef or a technician but I am not blinkered enough to think that techies are God's own gift to the RAF and that everyone else should give thanks and praise to the Almighty (or their chosen deity) every time a techy chooses to pass wind.
Without sounding like ILLBW, the delivery of Air Power is an effect caused by a combined effort from all trades and branches. Let's see the techies carry on working cheerfully when some adminer make a mistake and fcuks up their pay next month.
Not digging at you Sospan, just sick of the techies that think the RAF owes them a living. Here's news for you all - YOU CHOSE THE JOB, WIPE YOUR BACKSIDES AND GET ON WITH IT!
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NotAnIDOYet
Guest
I salute you (in all seriousness) as a man of integrity and honesty then. There are plenty of others who do not have your courage and are hanging on for the pension.
Cook forgets to put the beans on---- result no beans for brekfast
Techie forgets to fit panel--------- result smoking hole in ground
Hardly seems fair they get paid the same does it?
Whatever happened to consequence of error.
A first step to fixing the RAF would be to bin Pay 2000
You can hardly say that the lower pay band is poor pay for a chef, I don't not think techies are gods gift, there are other trades people who unfairly paid. Take Squippers for example.
The bare bones of the fact is some people spend 18 months in training, they then deploy and carry out daily tasks that require a far higher skill set and concentration than other trades. I understand the officer cadre works like that but I fail to see how it can work in our environment.
A Pilot and Supply Officer have completely different responsibility and this is reflected in with flying pay.
There has been some some good suggestions in this tread it would be a shame to disintegrated in to another Techie bashing thread.
planesailing
Always a Liney
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how can we fix it ?
how can we fix it ?
I was one of the unlucky ones who gets no pension rights for my service before 1975.
However I joined the Prison Service and accrued 34 years of Pension at age 56, thank God!
Don`t knock the people who stay on for the pension, they have done their bit and simply await the reward, after say 22 years it`s probably a false hope to expect a civilian pension to give as much as the military one.
My advice, stay for the 55, your die is cast.
how can we fix it ?
I was one of the unlucky ones who gets no pension rights for my service before 1975.
However I joined the Prison Service and accrued 34 years of Pension at age 56, thank God!
Don`t knock the people who stay on for the pension, they have done their bit and simply await the reward, after say 22 years it`s probably a false hope to expect a civilian pension to give as much as the military one.
My advice, stay for the 55, your die is cast.
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Dilligaf Jagman
Guest
Oh how little of the world you must have seen, when your balls drop and you reflect on that "inspired" peace of prose you will hopefully realise what an arse you just made of yourself! Has it occured to your tiny interlect that the people in these jobs have to have had the experience that you deem the be so pivotal to write the AP's, provide the feedback to technical enquiries etc for chumps like you!? No? Didn't think so!
PS I assume the same inspired policy would apply to your own docs cell?
That will never happen because the forecast savings from it were used to pay FRIs to Harrier Pilots. Given that the "saving" has already been spent, there would need to be a huge injection of cash to revert to something resembling our former pay system. That's without including the cash that would have to be spent on top just to change JPA. I think Pay 2000 is here to stay I'm afraid. So we will continue to have debates like this, we will continue to lose good people because the jump on promotion is now almost negligible (And therefore more are turning promotion down), and the animosity between various trades will increase.
planesailing
Always a Liney
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Why are you such a miserable fecker? I`ve read your posts so far, shineys have their place in the scheme of things, techies need the skills of shineys to do their job, or am I missing something?
Yes you were, he was responding to people working at IPT's and eng records who are Engineers not Shineys. Read the posts again and you will understand.