US troop reductions in Germany

[Tin basher]

We pulled out in noticeable numbers way back for different reasons. Irritated at Germany not paying what he deems a fair amount of its GDP to fund forces within NATO the petulant one is withdrawing troops from the country.

" The U.S. will bring about 6,400 forces home from Germany and shift about 5,600 to other countries in Europe"
" NATO nations have pledged to dedicate 2% of their gross domestic product to defense spending by 2024, and Germany is still short of that goal, at about 1.4%. "
" Trump bluntly said 'We're reducing the force because they're not paying their bills. It's very simple. They're delinquent."

This will cost the US big bucks and Germany will miss the spending power of servicemen on it's soil. Of course it might never happen depending how the US election goes in November. Interesting to see how that nice Mr Putin reacts, if at all, to this move

Trump pulls 12,000 troops out of Germany and calls Merkel 'delinquent'

The U.S. will bring about 6,400 forces home and shift about 5,600 to other countries in Europe. Trump said 'we're reducing the force because they're not paying their bills. They're delinquent.'

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[Oldstacker]

I can't say i am surprised. Too many European nations (us included) have assumed that they can have the might of NATO (which largely means the USA) to defend them without putting fair shares into the pot - citing the peace dividend of the Berlin Wall and Inner German border coming down. Unfortunately defence is an insurance business (a very expensive one at that) - you all pay in according to the risks you present and the kitty is used to pay out (read defend you) when you need help. Hitherto, the US has paid a lot in despite being at low risk of soviet/Russian attack and now they want their premiums reduced or others' increased. Europe can't have it both ways.


Trump's terminology may be a bit simplistic but that doesn't make the principle wrong.

 

[busby1971]

Wouldn’t have thought that the threat of a ground war in Germany was very likely, although never say never. On the other hand China is being a bit of a dick in so many ways so I’d be putting my troops in that area.

 

[Oldstacker]

The issue with Russia is that NATO has expanded its membership to include countries that are more at risk from Russian incursions "to protect their Russian populations" - think of the Crimea and then move your eyes to the perennial issue of the 3 Baltic states. If Russia makes a move on them then it's "Sorry guys, TTW starts here but your German (and others) colleagues are under equipped, under trained and ill prepared and Uncle Sam no longer cares enough to take up the slack....."

Whilst i agree that China is sabre rattling and might have a go at a proper takeover of HK, or even Taiwan, the NATO commitment to intervene doesn't exist. We may not like their actions, we might tut very loudly or even use "I say, old boy..." but we don't have to do anything (even if we could).

 

[Tin basher]

Whilst i agree that China is sabre rattling and might have a go at a proper takeover of HK, or even Taiwan, the NATO commitment to intervene doesn't exist. We may not like their actions, we might tut very loudly or even use "I say, old boy..." but we don't have to do anything (even if we could).

Agreed not much we, the UK, can do about whatever actions China decides to take. Perhaps send a strongly worded memo backed up by a stern letter of complaint if they carry on their current path and that's it . Similarly NATO might huff and puff, whinge and moan but the prospect of a shooting war against Russia to save some Baltic states annexed by Putin's lads, states that most yanks couldn't find on a map, can't see that happening either.

 

[Talk Wrench]

The issue with Russia is that NATO has expanded its membership to include countries that are more at risk from Russian incursions "to protect their Russian populations" - think of the Crimea and then move your eyes to the perennial issue of the 3 Baltic states. If Russia makes a move on them then it's "Sorry guys, TTW starts here but your German (and others) colleagues are under equipped, under trained and ill prepared and Uncle Sam no longer cares enough to take up the slack....."

Whilst i agree that China is sabre rattling and might have a go at a proper takeover of HK, or even Taiwan, the NATO commitment to intervene doesn't exist. We may not like their actions, we might tut very loudly or even use "I say, old boy..." but we don't have to do anything (even if we could).

I was under the impression that the orange one wishes to push troops deeper into Eastern Europe.

Which makes sense, when you take THIS into account.

A 7200 km rail line linking China to Moscow. Maybe it's a trade link, maybe its a quick way to shift loads of armour and personnel as required.

 

[FootTapper]

Intriguing how Trump says he's moving troops out of Germany because they don't pay their 2%...
Aaaaand then he moves them into countries who pay a lower percentage.

 

[Oldstacker]

Agreed not much we, the UK, can do about whatever actions China decides to take. Perhaps send a strongly worded memo backed up by a stern letter of complaint if they carry on their current path and that's it . Similarly NATO might huff and puff, whinge and moan but the prospect of a shooting war against Russia to save some Baltic states annexed by Putin's lads, states that most yanks couldn't find on a map, can't see that happening either.

Unfortunately failing to do anything if Russia goes into a Baltic state would mean the end of NATO - Article 5 provides that if a NATO Ally is the victim of an armed attack, each and every other member of the Alliance will consider this act of violence as an armed attack against all members and will take the actions it deems necessary to assist the Ally attacked. If you once let Russia invade without doing anything then no-one is safe and NATO will have failed on a basic tenet of the alliance.

It was a bad day when NATO expanded to include higher risk nations without necessarily having the political will and military might to do what it says it will do.