The Rank of CPL

[vim_fuego]

Been talked about in another thread but worthy of its own debate.

Many ways of looking at it:

From the perspective of a Junior Rank - Do they jump to a task issued to them by a CPL as much as a SNCO? Aside from financial remuneration is there an incentive to be one becuase of any perceived kudos/increased responsibility or respect?

From the perspective of a serving CPL - Do you feel like you've still achieved something when you reached this rank? No more CPL's club and a percetion from many on here thats its now a non-rank in terms of respect and presonsibility

From the perspective of a SNCO - Do or can you rely on todays NCO cadre to extend and enact your authority in your absence? Are CPL's empowered enough by the rank and you?

From the ex-serving perspective - How was a CPL perceived in your day? How did if feel to reach that rank at that time?

Lets discuss...

 

[Kryten]

I got my tapes in 1994, almost 5 years to the day after joining up. I felt that it was the first promotion I had achieved on my own merit because unless you cocked up big time everyone expected to get their SACs up without any drama.

It quickly became apparent that despite the additional pay not a lot really changed. The attitude in my section was that if there was a shortage of airmen then the Corporals would stand in and do their duties instead. So we had weeks when we had Corporals doing Duty Driver, early and late keys in addition to rank-specific duties..so after a while you really began to wonder what the benefit of being an NCO actually was - especially when you considered how Cpls were treated and perceived when I joined up.

And I think that's the problem - as the RAF has shrunk over the years the boundaries between ranks have blurred; the task the RAF exists for has probably gotten more complex and more widespread, but without the manpower to do it properly rank seems to play no part in deciding who does what...."rank has its privileges" started to lack credibility back then and I am assuming its even more the case now...

 

[Witty_Banter]

Depends on the posting, and who you work for...

As a Cpl, I've never had my authority questioned by an SAC - but I think that's down to my winning personality rather than an acknowledged respect for the blue square on my shoulder. I certainly felt that I'd earned my 2banana, and Cpl is seen as God in Phase 1 and 2 training (from my experience).

But having worked in various different places, I've felt the value of my rank erode over time. Working with Army SNCO and above is particularly soul-destroying - particularly when you can have a 10 year Cpl or a 15 year Sgt who's earned it, being treated like crap by a 8 year Staff Sgt / RSM - particularly if they know less about their job than you do.

Plus ranks in the Army just gets dished out with their morning cornflakes, so there's little to no respect for the JNCO / SNCO cadre from the officers either. I won't even get started on how SACs are treated (I was treated better at Halton...)

 

[Kenbophaw]

The lines are certainly more blurred; but I believe it's more because people are being allowed to blur the lines. When I was an SAC it would be the 1 up/1 down rule.... these days, there is less respect and discipline than ever. Not only do some SAC's call Sgt's by their first names, they even drop 'mate' etc in as well! The only reason people are getting away with it is because they are being allowed to by those senior to them. There are poor examples being set by seniors of all ranks across the board. Maybe it's symptomatic of being a much smaller RAF or maybe it's always been a problem, but we only notice it the older and grumpier we get!?!

 

[vim_fuego]

Backing up what Kenbo said..when was the last time anybody as a CPL charged anybody (which is a good way of unblurring any lines)?

 

[muttywhitedog]

Little things make a big difference such as boarding OOA flights from Bzn. Officers called first, WO's, SNCO's, then there is a mad scramble. Same for on-unit briefings where the Cpls don't get their own brief to discuss issues specific to their rank.

I believe that they should be afforded the respect they deserve, not just from the SACs & Sgts (who generally work closely with the Cpls), but from the FSs, WOs & Commissioned types.

 

[Stevienics]

Cpl is a rank where you decide what you are, When you've made that decision, it becomes apparent to everyone and from that point on you will see the change in how you are treated.

Try to ride with the hare and hounds, and you're going to be ignored. You've got to learn to make the nasty decisions before you get the respect.

 

[Witty_Banter]

Maybe it's symptomatic of being a much smaller RAF

I would agree with this, we've seen our shift size drop massively over the years across various units. More work but less people to do it, people may be too generally disgruntled with their own lives to worry about military ettiquette. I have a feeling that the Mess way of life (and by today's standards, it's general decline in service life) has something to do with it.

 

[propersplitbrainme]

Cpl is a rank where you decide what you are, When you've made that decision, it becomes apparent to everyone and from that point on you will see the change in how you are treated.

Try to ride with the hare and hounds, and you're going to be ignored. You've got to learn to make the nasty decisions before you get the respect.

Quite agree.

At a recent meeting it was intimated that, due to a lack of volunteers, we may be required to accept as instructors, JNCOs fresh off the promotion board. This prospect makes me a little concerned, not because I believe that a recently promoted SAC(T) lacks any sort of basic trade knowledge or the skills to communicate that information, its something more fundamental and akin to the point made above. There are too many traps to catch out the inexperienced or unwary, i.e. those who haven't yet developed a sense of appropriatness when recognising when to be and not to be 'one of the lads' or that 'spidey sense' that tells you that 'I/we really shouldn't be doing this'.
For example, when a younger instructor fails to control their course properly and the lads get caught by the Chief or F/S horsing around its the instructor who cops the flack but unfortunately many instructors tend to adopt the trainee attitude and see themselves as the victim rather than the one who should have been ensuring good order is maintained. And when dealing with 16 different lads and lasses every few weeks while trying to still be one of them, there are bigger pitfalls than a simple bollocking that can be fall the unwary believe me!

 

[gray]

Quite funny (If not completely true )

View attachment 13868

 

[MontyPlumbs]

I had an epiphany when I was on SWO's working party picking litter out of Officers gardens with a Corporal who'd done 19 years.

The following Monday morning I pulled the yellow and black.

 

[Barch]

Back in 1980 when I got my tapes my FS told me it was OK to be friendly with the troops but not matey with them during working hours. In those days a Corporal was expected to be a 'boss', it wasn't easy to start with but as the confidence grew it became easier especially knowing you had the backing of the seniors.

I took it on board, at work I was their boss but still had a great working relationship with lads, I am proud to say a lot of them are still very good friends.

A lot of respect i got may be due to the fact that I treated everyone as an expert in their own field whether that be an LAC PandA clerk or the Chiefy in workshops. The attitude of good morning / afternoon etc and asking for assistance makes you more friends than telling someone that you are p!$$ed off that your leave has been cocked up and they need to get it sorted type of attitude.