That dog at Scampton

[Oldstacker]

At the start they didn't read "obscure political literature" and at the end they had no idea what was happening at that camp over the hill, where thousands went in but nobody came out.
Not very enquiring.

Normal people at the beginning and a cowed and frightened people at the end.....

 

[Oldstacker]

And let's not forget that the Nazi genocide of its own people, conquered peoples and the Jews was not the only genocide or genocide-like events in the 20th century. The Turks & the Armenians, the Serbs and the Muslims in FRY, the Tutsis and the Huthus in Rwanda, the USSR & the Chechens (and just about anybody who was not ethnically Russian), Japanese & Chinese, India & Pakistan at partition..... It's a basic human flaw that 'people' will accept the mass murder of other people. The Nazis just managed to industrialise it in ways that no other group has and managed the process more effectively.

Back on the topic; Whilst I am not a fan of rewriting history to eliminate the name of a dog; I think it was better to replace the headstone without the offending word now rather than see some effort by a mob to do worse than obliterate the name.

 

[SAXAVORDIAN]

Cannot see a group of raw recruits rushing on mass ill informed bedwetters, pulling down the N=gger statue while RAF Snowdrop kneeling down on one in appeasement. How about a Dambuster Bomb statue next to a brick wall. In Latin (One of Many for so Few Dams).

 

[Barch]

I can't see any individuals that could possibly be upset by the name of the dog being the kind of person that would be visiting a place that has got so much history of death and destruction.

Does anyone know who to write to for an FOI request to find out how many people have actually complained about the name ?

 

[FootTapper]

Does anyone know who to write to for an FOI request to find out how many people have actually complained about the name ?

I seem to remember that FOI requests used to get handled by HR / Pers Admin/ PSF - so they might be the best PoC



Personally.....
(and this is only my humble opinion and not meant to cause offence to anyone or suggest that anyone else's opinion is not valid)

I think, the fewer complaints which have been received then the more significant this is as a positive act by the RAF.

We talk about leadership as including a willingness to make the difficult unpopular decisions as well as the easy and popular ones. I would be stunned if nobody in the decision making process was aware that there would be a passionate and vocal reaction against this change - to go ahead and do it pro-actively took some balls I reckon.

 

[Rocket_Ronster]

The world is moving on and changing. if you can’t do the same..... think about getting off.

I'd bloody love to.

 

[SAXAVORDIAN]

I can't see any individuals that could possibly be upset by the name of the dog being the kind of person that would be visiting a place that has got so much history of death and destruction.

Does anyone know who to write to for an FOI request to find out how many people have actually complained about the name ?

I suspect the makeup of the RAF now reflect todays society, I guess more than it was during the seventies or eighties. Therefore the mood to change has swung to remove offending figures is strong to not offend coloured servicemen and women and gender fluids

 

[justintime129]

Therefore the mood to change has swung to remove offending figures is strong to not offend coloured servicemen and women and gender fluids

To not offend coloured servicemen. Try using that word in a conversation with the BAME community.

 

[Gonterseed]

I've been around the block a few times and worked/travelled extensively.

Until covid lockdown or round about when the US police killed that black fellah I cannot remember anyone being described as BAME...

 

[vim_fuego]

To not offend coloured servicemen. Try using that word in a conversation with the BAME community.

What if we put it to some catchy drum and base type music and threw in a few 'bitches' and 'hoes' whilst making 'v' shapes with our fingers and such?

 

[unruly1986]

What if we put it to some catchy drum and base type music and threw in a few 'bitches' and 'hoes' whilst making 'v' shapes with our fingers and such?

The nineties called - they want their stereotypes back.

 

[SAXAVORDIAN]

Clearly a small reprimand on the wrist would help here, if you feel my coarse printed language offend such. I shall use BAME from now on, I have been out of the service possible too long to not understand todays sensitive military attitude. I digress maybe today's RAF/ BAME personnel would equally twinge at the sight of a BAME dog having a name that would upset fellow BAMER'S . Better

 

[vim_fuego]

The nineties called - they want their stereotypes back.

I think this put-down is overused and tired...As I browse through my Amazon music app looking for new stuff for my work at home playlists I stumble across plenty of new releases from rappers (if you don't recognise the name of the artist you have to press play to find out if its rap or something you might actually like) that has the disclaimer 'explicit' next to it and lo and behold double standards are exhibted in a lot of cases. It's cool for one and racist for another.

 

[busby1971]

I think this put-down is overused and tired...As I browse through my Amazon music app looking for new stuff for my work at home playlists I stumble across plenty of new releases from rappers (if you don't recognise the name of the artist you have to press play to find out if its rap or something you might actually like) that has the disclaimer 'explicit' next to it and lo and behold double standards are exhibted in a lot of cases. It's cool for one and racist for another.

Some of these SOB are non-BAME.

just try to avoid anything ‘Featuring’ in the title and you’ll be okay for easy listening.

 

[JollyRoger835]

I suppose it was inevitable that the change would happen especially in today's climate.

Gravestone to Dambuster hero's beloved dog 'N*****' REPLACED by RAF

The stone tablet, which is based at RAF Scampton in Lincolnshire, honoured Guy Gibson's black Labrador, which was run over by a car and killed on the day of the famous raid.

www.dailymail.co.uk

I get the PC aspect of the change and why it has been done but it is smudging history a little. The no longer used n-word actually was the dogs name. Are we applying 21st century values to a mid 20th century situation.

Any truth in this?

 

[Cornish_Pikey]

The nineties called - they want their stereotypes back.

Check out the lyrics to a recent Cardi B release, 'WAP'.

 

[Tin basher]

Check out the lyrics to a recent Cardi B release, 'WAP'.

I did and amongst the liberal amounts of profanity within the lyrics I found this charming ditty

" Beat it up, n*****, catch a charge
Extra large and extra hard
Put this pussy right in your face
Swipe your nose like a credit card"

The *** are mine, in the lyrics the actual letters for the word are used.

 

[Tin basher]

The saga of the dog is seemingly without end so apologies for the necro post but.

The dog who's name we cannot say is in the news again what to do with the remains of a dog that s been dead for 80 years. Best we have a council meeting and harump some more.

"An extraordinary meeting is to be held over proposals to exhume the body of the dog buried at the former home of the Dambusters due to concerns connected to the site's use as a migrant camp."

Plans to exhume dog buried at ex Dambusters home to be discussed

The black Labrador, called N***** (pictured), was owned by Wing Commander Guy Gibson, who led the RAF's 617 Squadron Dambusters raid from RAF Scampton, in Lincolnshire, in May 1943.

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[Defenestration]

People were in uproar when they changed the headstone, what do you expect when they are "removing more Scampton heritage"?

 

[Defenestration]

From the local council Facebook page.

More than 120 people attended tonight Extraordinary Planning Committee, which was held at the Epic Centre at the Lincolnshire Showground.
Councillor on the committee where asked to consider the Listed Building Consent Application at RAF Scampton.
As previously reported, an application was received by the Council on 9 May to seek listed building consent for the removal of Guy Gibson’s dog’s grave.
The application was made by the RAF, as a result of concerns regarding the safety of the grave in light of the Home Office plans to house asylum seekers on the site.
Members of the public were invited to speak at the meeting including Sir Edward Leigh MP for Gainsborough, Peter Hewitt from Scampton Holdings Limited, Cllr Roger Patterson ward member for Scampton and many more.
After listening to the speakers, members debated the application and have made a decision.
They have unanimously supported the officers recommendation, which is to refuse listed building consent.
The meeting was recorded and will be uploaded on to the councils website in due course.