TG17 Establishment Setting

[muttywhitedog]

This is a very specific question and I would ask the mods to make sure that it doesn't drift off topic.

Is there a formula whereby the number of TG17 SAC/Cpl/Sgts established are based on Unit strength?

If so, approximately how many personnel generates the need for 1, 2 SACs etc etc.

Is this laid down somewhere and if so, could I be pointed in that direction?

Many thanks fellow Goaters!

MWD

 

[Downsizer]

AP3390 helped me with manpower scales. Probably a TG17 element in it...

 

[BJW]

That's a really good question muttywhitedog and relevant to all trades.

Within the stacker world we used to have very definite guidance that XX tonnes through R&D generated XX number of staff and XX vouchers raised generated XX VDU Operators (as was!). From the number of staff there was a formula for calculating the number of supervisors with an allowance for merit posts (remember them?) also included. I have not seen this for years and establishments seem to be set based on the finger in the wind principle and "How few can we get away with".

The Manpower Consultancy people at HQ AIR may have some guidelines but it would be interesting to know if any official publication still exists, I think we could all use it to some extent.

Edited to add. Good steer to the AP3390, for Admin it is Vol 2 Chap 7. Not as detailed as the old guidance, but a good start.

 

[busby1971]

Probably a variety

Probably a variety

Mutty

It might be easy to work this out for PSF, when SAMA took over from Kardex there was a ratio for the reduction in PD Points, and then a further reduction once SAMA had bedded down, I'm guessing the same sums were done when JPA reduced our work load.

It might be a bit more difficult for wider station posts, every post should be justified I guess or disestablished.

I would have recommended going to the trade sponsor to get a more definate answer but unless you know him (or her) personally then you may have to got through the Chf Clk, however, if you're asking these questions you might have an issue here.

 

[muttywhitedog]

No issue - just after either a steer to a publication, or a definitive "For every XXX personnel you get 1 x SAC and 1 x Cpl". I'm back at work on Monday and will look at the AP then, but by Monday, it may all well be sorted anyway - fingers crossed at the correct manning level - its not as if we are short on scribes at the moment!

Hopefully King Guin will soon stop twisting on the Mess Dress Regs thread and give me a steer!!!!DT_Xtremez_30:

 

[Mighty Quercus]

Hi,

Our Wing which is about 400 strong and we have 3 x TG17 consisting of 1 x SNCO, 1 x Cpl and 1 SAC, who seem to cope very well. The rank structure means each can man up one level if one is away on leave OOA etc.

Again not sure where it is written down but is just a guide how we do things.

 

[Artist]

Mutty - the TS is very approachable whether you know him or not. Best advice is give him a call. If your Stn/Sqn are looking to amend the establishment the paperwork needs to go through him anyway.

 

[muttywhitedog]

Guys, thanks for your inputs. I've had a look at the AP and it is as much help as a chocolate fireguard!

To amplify: I am at a unit that is due to close in just over 12 months. I am supposed to have 530 personnel on strength, but with lodger units etc, I suspect it will be nearer 700-750. To do this task, there will be 1 x Sgt, 2 x Cpl and 2 x SAC.

I suspect the decision to have 5 x TG17 was made before the number of lodgers was even thought about - however more and more seem to be coming out of the woodwork every day. Today we were asked if 19 AMMs could stay on unit strength until they got their courses - thats another 19 that need admin support on top of all the others. No doubt tomorrow there'll be another bunch that need to stay!

I may be erring on the side of caution, but I would feel more comfortable with 3 x SAC and was hoping there was a formula which said how many SACs you got for a unit of a certain size.

 

[busby1971]

Guys, thanks for your inputs. I've had a look at the AP and it is as much help as a chocolate fireguard!

To amplify: I am at a unit that is due to close in just over 12 months. I am supposed to have 530 personnel on strength, but with lodger units etc, I suspect it will be nearer 700-750. To do this task, there will be 1 x Sgt, 2 x Cpl and 2 x SAC.

I suspect the decision to have 5 x TG17 was made before the number of lodgers was even thought about - however more and more seem to be coming out of the woodwork every day. Today we were asked if 19 AMMs could stay on unit strength until they got their courses - thats another 19 that need admin support on top of all the others. No doubt tomorrow there'll be another bunch that need to stay!

I may be erring on the side of caution, but I would feel more comfortable with 3 x SAC and was hoping there was a formula which said how many SACs you got for a unit of a certain size.

I was at St Mawgan in the Mid 90s, they half closed Chivenor got rid of the staff and left us to deal with the rest of the lodger units, all at the same time as dumping Portreath and cutting our manning whilst dealing with Options Drawdown.

 

[KingGuin]

Hopefully King Guin will soon stop twisting on the Mess Dress Regs thread and give me a steer!!!!DT_Xtremez_30:

Soz Mutty not got access to a work PC for a few days. Nonetheless, I do recall a scaling but its whereabouts escapes me. If you can wait I can find it; if not I suggest CMLO whom would be best placed to advise.

As for twisting away from Dress Regs.....never lol