So found out a friend of mine has PVR'd and was quite shocked that the RAF can't hold onto some of our brightest and best guys due to various reasons i.e. lack of promotion prospects, poor morale, NEM, better prospects outside etc. Out of interest/nosiness I thought I'd start a poll to get a feel for the state of the trade.
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State of TG4
- Thread starter 4everAD
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4 years to go and the pension!! Ex TG11 can keep their "Empire" that they have cocooned themselves into while screwing over Ex-3s..............
So far if doesn't take a genius (good job wrt RAF manning) to work that people aren't happy, what are the main reasons and more importantly what practical and feasible solutions do you suggest?
For my part I'd immediately can the idea of signing WOs to age 60, it helps no one and just slows promotion even more (if that's possible). Also maybe introduce L/Cpl rank this would give our brightest SAC(T)s a chance to cut their teeth with a little responsibility in a controlled way rather than having to dive in as Cpls with so much expected of them.
For my part I'd immediately can the idea of signing WOs to age 60, it helps no one and just slows promotion even more (if that's possible). Also maybe introduce L/Cpl rank this would give our brightest SAC(T)s a chance to cut their teeth with a little responsibility in a controlled way rather than having to dive in as Cpls with so much expected of them.
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My main griping points 4Ever are:
Just as well I enjoy where I work right now but defo not beyond 22!!!
- Allowing a numpty Ex-trade to rule the roost.
- Cutting of allowances costing personnel money when they are ORDERED on a course. Especially relevant for families.
- Having to fight tooth and nail to get accomodation such as hotels, hire cars etc when YOU ARE GOING!!!!!
- A certain secret "Special Forces Unit" trying to justify its existence, hoarding manpower and run by said numptys.
- Watching personnel who know what they are doing inside, mature and can get on the job without fuss being overlooked every year on promotion boards (a lot of Ex-3 SACs).
- Going through a certain "secret" training establishment and seeing said YOUNG numptys all carrying their thirds.
- Said numptys not being able to do both sides of the trade.
- Why get your third when the pay rise is paltry??
- Civil servants who act like they are doing you a favour doing their jobs and then not getting backed up by management when they complain about..wait for it....your attitude.
- JOINTERY!!!!!
- I could go on.............
Just as well I enjoy where I work right now but defo not beyond 22!!!
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On top of that I can't see any way back for the RAF as a whole. It's a YOUNG man's game now where the MOD have clearly staked their plans albeit without saying directly, on a high turnover of personnel who can be discarded before a pension point.
My ilk will be the few on '75 to get a decent, if slightly reduced pension.
Of course with SDSR 15..................
My ilk will be the few on '75 to get a decent, if slightly reduced pension.
Of course with SDSR 15..................
High Pay Peanut
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The thread may change but the sweet taste of your bitter tears never diminish.
There is nothing wrong with TG4, it is the dinosaurs that refused to accept it was a step up from TG3 and TG11 that have held it back. Why not try to be a bit more proactive and positive and then maybe you wont be surpassed by all the 'numpty' individuals.
TG4 was very good for me and my pay. TYVM.
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Weeks to do and so happy. What is wrong is senior managers who have built their rep on "the wider raf" and are ****e at their trade who when in a position of responsibility are to scared to move forward or take action in case it goes wrong and effects their meteoric rise. Better no action than look bad. Every ex 3 (and a ****load in the pension trap) i know has pull the cord because they know theres work with the defence contractors. Good luck to the future RAF because it use to be a great place to work and was very good to me in the beginning. (And for all those who say move over old man. I am)
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HPP: So you will be working on a mountain side in the Falklands and/or Ground Radio I take it soon? We are all one trade after all aren't we?
While you are doing that I'll be sitting in an I-Hub resetting accounts and playing with MOSS, wearing my long sleeve shirt and tie, pretending I'm important and organising my next charity event. Now DATO. That sounds nice. Maybe I should give that a whirl.
While you are doing that I'll be sitting in an I-Hub resetting accounts and playing with MOSS, wearing my long sleeve shirt and tie, pretending I'm important and organising my next charity event. Now DATO. That sounds nice. Maybe I should give that a whirl.
GrumpyTech
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Problems with in TG4!!!!!!
We have frustrated JR's who waht to be techs but we are in such a choke hold from contractors they are lucky to be able to reset passwords. I blame this on Ex TG11 WO's/ FS who got themselves into positions to influence TG4. They based the new trade on there abilities (Stamping Sig's, custodian) not what the kids can do. So we are locked in to what crusty WO could do!!!
(Thats not to knock ex11, there are plenty enjoying the challenges of the tg4, and doing well.)
The same crusty ex11's write SJARs on secondary duties as this was a big commcen thing.
People doing Staff job after staff job, so becoming further from core trade then getting promoted.
The disconnect from 90 to C4i's, wider Air Force are quick to moan about 90 but wont do a tour there.
JNCO's who act like SAC's (ie take the pay but wont do the disp bits) so Sgt's work load gets harder.
Officers who dont give a monkeys about there manpower, they only want to impress their boss. They work OR's to the ground without a second thought.
Hows that for a start?????
We have frustrated JR's who waht to be techs but we are in such a choke hold from contractors they are lucky to be able to reset passwords. I blame this on Ex TG11 WO's/ FS who got themselves into positions to influence TG4. They based the new trade on there abilities (Stamping Sig's, custodian) not what the kids can do. So we are locked in to what crusty WO could do!!!
(Thats not to knock ex11, there are plenty enjoying the challenges of the tg4, and doing well.)
The same crusty ex11's write SJARs on secondary duties as this was a big commcen thing.
People doing Staff job after staff job, so becoming further from core trade then getting promoted.
The disconnect from 90 to C4i's, wider Air Force are quick to moan about 90 but wont do a tour there.
JNCO's who act like SAC's (ie take the pay but wont do the disp bits) so Sgt's work load gets harder.
Officers who dont give a monkeys about there manpower, they only want to impress their boss. They work OR's to the ground without a second thought.
Hows that for a start?????
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chumpzilla
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**stands and applauds** ha ha, absolutely fantastic! Most Tg11 oldies I've seen would cack their pants if they got let near any real kit...oh, wait
High Pay Peanut
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They don't need to work on the kit anymore though because apparently they have all been promoted to management roles above the TG3 master race?
There is nothing wrong with TG4. Some people refuse to admit they have failed in their careers because of their own ineptitude, not the 'evil TG11'
Im sorry TG4 has not worked out for you but I have found that people with your particular 'attitude' have only themselves to blame for remaining locked in the past at low ranks.
You have to make the best of these changes, try harder and maybe you will be rewarded - as I was?
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Do you patronise your juniors in that tone? What you going to do when you eventually have to stop hiding in the RAF? Go back to being a team leader on the fries counter?!!!
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One of the great myths perpetuated by Ex TG11 when they are managing Ex TG3:
Anyone can manage a section.....Until that is you explain to them that they have a responsibility for QA, H&S, Engineering Standards, Engineering Management Meetings, Welfare of personnel, Security, Development of Personnel, Calling Thunderstates (one of the reasons that a lot of things on the No-Manning website that a lot of technical FS positions are Ex-3), Building Custodian, Signing as accepting Risk Assessments, Ensuring sections have trained strength, OJT etc.............
Exhausting I know! More to it than just filling boxes in a MANNING PLANNER!!!!!
If thats the case, why are they PVRing in droves and so desperate to get them in we are offering golden hellos?
RJL,
Have you gone into the mind reading business? When I read your input above I was shocked to agree with every single point and that these were exactly the very reasons for me to jump ship 18 months ago. Granted, I did have 35 yrs in and there was no way I was going to the new pension scheme and lose out on my double tax free payout.
Let's face it, the trade is on the slippery slope. Little to no job satisfaction anymore and personnel being promoted on secondary duties rather than fixing things! We were getting WO's/FS/Sgt's into sections with little/no actual trade knowledge to do the "background tasks" like COSHH etc. let alone being asked by the officer core for SME input at staffing meetings. Once I had to explain to my WO why servicing was required on a radar! You needed to have used the stuff to know how bad it could be!
I feel that I am well out of it now. Don't get me wrong, I had some great times to go with the bad, however sadly the latter was taking over so I went. Best decision I ever made. The youngsters can have it (and they are welcome to it) as I will probably never see the likes of my trade (ex-3) again.
HPP, I would have loved to have had someone with your attitude as the radar Sgt on top of a mountain. I wonder how long you would have lasted?
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Digszter. Good luck in retirement/work in the future. Luckily where I am we are all Ex-3 with New 4 who are interested in the technical side. But Ex-3s feel well and truly shafted, especially the Ex-3 SACs. People have said we can't let go. Facts are we were already doing IT et al before it was hijacked from our trade. We have Ex 3 SACs that are clearly superior to newer 4 JNCOs and Ex 11s in general.
It seems there is a pressure for lots of stuff to be done for promotion a la "playing the game" which tends to mean charity work, OU, 24/7 something except for many, caring for their families (I'm single but I do see it).
I made my mind up years ago about what I am going to do come 22...And it is Mr.
Grumpy Tech quite rightly says that a lot of JNCOs are acting like SACs except with the pay and he is right. Problems come with immaturity of a lot of newer JNCOs (maturity is something that never gets talked about in an SJAR lets face it) and older JNCOs trying and failing to change attitudes towards taskings, Health and Safety, QA and documentation. It is very hard to change a culture in these aspects when those above you don't want to know until something happens and then a witch hunt will take place to admonish themselves of responsibility. So you just muddle along..............
The only winners out of this whole debacle has been Ex-11.
It seems there is a pressure for lots of stuff to be done for promotion a la "playing the game" which tends to mean charity work, OU, 24/7 something except for many, caring for their families (I'm single but I do see it).
I made my mind up years ago about what I am going to do come 22...And it is Mr.
Grumpy Tech quite rightly says that a lot of JNCOs are acting like SACs except with the pay and he is right. Problems come with immaturity of a lot of newer JNCOs (maturity is something that never gets talked about in an SJAR lets face it) and older JNCOs trying and failing to change attitudes towards taskings, Health and Safety, QA and documentation. It is very hard to change a culture in these aspects when those above you don't want to know until something happens and then a witch hunt will take place to admonish themselves of responsibility. So you just muddle along..............
The only winners out of this whole debacle has been Ex-11.
You will laugh but the best option would be to split the trade.
They already stream personnel using 4001 courses and the like so now they just need to grow some balls and realise it was the wrong decision. I have been in less than 10 years and will be very surprised if they put me on any IT section with the courses/experience I have & I never want to either!
I am an Electronic Comms Engineer, I am studying for my Electronic Eng. Degree, why would I want to waste all my hard earnt knowledge and experience sat behind a friggin helpdesk or working on networks and vice-versa for the ICT guys.
This is not 1 trade, it is still 2 trades/jobs amalgamated into 1 and it always will be. The experience of working in 2 different jobs favours noone. It costs the RAF more on courses and does nothing for CV's and more importantly it destroys morale.
Negativity breeds, 2 people on my section didn't want to work on the stuff we do, they ENJOY the ICT side. Job satisfaction? Nil - they don't enjoy this type of work.
It's all well and good saying that this so called diversity is great but in reality it hinders personal development. What good is a supervisor/manager if he doesn't have any experience on similar pieces of kit? People should be the dogs b*llocks by the time they reach manager as otherwise people question how he/she has got there or why they are in the job role to start with.
Jack of all trades, master of none.
Don't get me started on jointery. The only thing that I have learnt from working with the pongos is that they laugh at how high the RAF regard secondary duties - if you're good at your job - you get promoted! (crazy right?)
They already stream personnel using 4001 courses and the like so now they just need to grow some balls and realise it was the wrong decision. I have been in less than 10 years and will be very surprised if they put me on any IT section with the courses/experience I have & I never want to either!
I am an Electronic Comms Engineer, I am studying for my Electronic Eng. Degree, why would I want to waste all my hard earnt knowledge and experience sat behind a friggin helpdesk or working on networks and vice-versa for the ICT guys.
This is not 1 trade, it is still 2 trades/jobs amalgamated into 1 and it always will be. The experience of working in 2 different jobs favours noone. It costs the RAF more on courses and does nothing for CV's and more importantly it destroys morale.
Negativity breeds, 2 people on my section didn't want to work on the stuff we do, they ENJOY the ICT side. Job satisfaction? Nil - they don't enjoy this type of work.
It's all well and good saying that this so called diversity is great but in reality it hinders personal development. What good is a supervisor/manager if he doesn't have any experience on similar pieces of kit? People should be the dogs b*llocks by the time they reach manager as otherwise people question how he/she has got there or why they are in the job role to start with.
Jack of all trades, master of none.
Don't get me started on jointery. The only thing that I have learnt from working with the pongos is that they laugh at how high the RAF regard secondary duties - if you're good at your job - you get promoted! (crazy right?)
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Xchen. You fancy being our Trade Sponsor??
New Trade. TG3.
You get my vote
DT_Xtremez_28:
New Trade. TG3.
You get my vote
DT_Xtremez_28: