Rubbish personnel management

[int chimp]

Is it just me or is there a hell of a lot of last minute dets and confusion over where to post people on promotion etc....

Part of this could be due to lastminute.com desert dodgers and general knobbers but the poor man management is the cause of most of the kerfuffle.

I am sure things were better a few years ago before the merge of the trades.

I have recently been told about the Cpl - Sgt situation ( thankfully I am not involved). Why choose people for promotion tell them what place they come on the board when there are sod all posts for them to go in.

Rant over.

Any comments For or against.

 

[mememe]

Is it just me or is there a hell of a lot of last minute dets and confusion over where to post people on promotion etc....

Part of this could be due to lastminute.com desert dodgers and general knobbers but the poor man management is the cause of most of the kerfuffle.

I am sure things were better a few years ago before the merge of the trades.

I have recently been told about the Cpl - Sgt situation ( thankfully I am not involved). Why choose people for promotion tell them what place they come on the board when there are sod all posts for them to go in.

Rant over.

Any comments For or against.

You have misunderstood the promotion selection process, just because you are "on the board" does not mean you get promoted, it is based on available slots. Some boards you can be number 1 and not get promoted, an other number 50 and get it.... The trade managers should publish the list post board and let everyone wait out until a slot comes up. This would solve 2 problems, first, the secrecy that revolves around the process will be lifted, secondly it will save the trade managers from receiving hundreds of calls from hopefuls then whine that they are overworked by the open door policy! I am sure the Army and Navy do this.

 

[FrogPrince]

Glass half full...?

Glass half full...?

Try turning this around.

[Rose tinted specs]

If you are 'picked up' then is this not an early indication that your RAF career situation is on solid ground and that you have a bright future, at least to the next rung on the ladder ?

[\Rose tinted specs]

FP

 

[Lincolnshire Central]

TG11 - Personnel Management

TG11 - Personnel Management

The main problems for why there are short notice deployments and postings are the the fact that TG11 personnel are increasingly required and valued to fill in-theatre or operationally essential roles. This goes along with the HERRICK surge and is a requirement that is a sign of the times. We need qualified int staffs to support ops and more of them than ever.

There is a problem with med downgrades, last min 'issues' that prevent deployment and changes in establishment/requirement.

The man management of postings and DWRs are taken very seriously by both TG11 desk and the Trade Sponsors Office. We attempt to give as much notice as humanly possible, taking into account individuals desires, but at the end of the day the service need comes first. DWR plots are worked out to 2 years in advance, however, injects come in on a daily basis to mess the plan up. The Int Pol&Plans office endeavor to provide the RAF with a solution whilst best looking after the tradesmen. Some individuals may well be unhappy with some of the short notice requirements, but the fact remains that these are not 'at random', they are the next individual in the system that is fit and available and qualified for the job and down to uncontrolled circumstances, not lack of forethought or organisation. The trade merger has increased the available pool and has made things significantly BETTER for the trade in terms of DWR, however, the requirement from theatre has increased the need.

As for postings, the best will be done for individuals, but they have to help themselves too. There are still many with poor detail in their JPA preferences. (EG: If you put in London, Middlesex and Surrey as your posting location preferences, and there are no posts available in those locations). The priority will always be to put the right individual in the right place, but the service need is always paramount. We also ensure that where and when pain has to be taken, it is done fairly amongst the trade as a whole.

Promotion. The process is simple, fair and is not changed. The board sits with 3 members who score the available reports based upon performance and potential in SJARs, provided they meet the minimum criteria and are deemed by the board to be promotable. They are then put into a ranked list from 1 to however many score. Then as the requirement for promotion occurs (ie: a space at the above rank becomes available) the next on the list is promoted. There is a 'quota' that is talked about, but this is (and always has been) a guideline figure for the board to ensure they have scored enough to meet the 'predicted' number that could possibly be needed in that year. That does not mean that if the quota is 30, 30 WILL be promoted. Promotions happen when there is a NEED for an individual at the next rank. If no one leaves that year, then there wont be any promotions. If loads of people leave through end of engagement, PVR or indeed if the establishment changes, then loads can be promoted.

I hope this clears up this misunderstanding of the situation and shows that a great deal of effort is going in to look after our people in difficult circumstances.

DT_Xtremez_26:

 

[Zippy]

DT_Xtremez_32:

 

[TinCanAlley]

Zippy, if you think people at Diggers are sat around on their fat asses then I would suggest you have no idea what goes on in that place and how much important work is done both there and on the huge number of detachments that Diggers is currently responsible for above and beyond the DWR list. Having seen both sides of the picture I suggest that your neck be wound in and you wake up to the bigger picture. Narrowmindedness isn't the best trait in our trade now is it!?

 

[int chimp]

i don't think there is a DWR list, i am sure people are just pulled out of a big hat (that some of the balls are missing, you know who you are out there!).

personnel that are fit and well and know that they are due a det soon are still getting sod all notice to move.

in the past you were the cover for the period of time leading up to you own det, now you get told to move when your opo is heading to the terminal.

it is not rocket science, sort it out

 

[i'll have a half]

as far as i can find out there are several reasons for number of people being given short notice dets.

A number of new posts have been allocated to Int An trade

This year there has been an increase in number of people getting downgraded shortly before deploying

and some people being returned from theatre.



Also heard that there is now a web page showing all Int An dets and people nominated for them as far ahead as early nxt year.

Dont know the address of it Has anyone else seen it or know about it

 

[In Tor Wot]

Get real Zippy

Get real Zippy

Zippy,

If you could lift your eyes off your stereoscope for two minutes and have a look at what is going on around you:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/07/31/mcchrystal-preparing-new-_n_248462.html

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/07/30/AR2009073003948.html

You might noticed that things have been changing rapidly over the last couple of months. 'i'll have a half' got the point about additional, short-notice posts. The fact that the Trade is so critically undermanned whilst trying to satisfy increasing demand might also have an impact. Just before you try jumping in with a purile 'we should say no', a lot of posts have been turned down.

It only takes one person to get back ache picking up a DWR for a whole chain to have to move to cover the shortage.

The halcyon days of Inssworth/High Wycombe 'control' over the det plot existed (if they ever did) were when the trades were at near full manning and posts were 60% less than they currently are.

Even with the myopic view presented by a light table, a tiny element of thought might have made you think twice about comments like :

mug the Imagery guys with a months notice

What part of 'We are fighting a war' don't you understand?

 

[Lincolnshire Central]

On the Intranet, find the RAF Waddington Homepage. There is a huge AWC icon in the bottom left corner, click on that.

Then click on the link for Gp Capt Ops Spt's domain.

There are a number of links available including Intelligence Support and withing that you will find the page Intelligence Policy Publications.

There you will find the plot. All published months out in advance for all parts of the trade... IMINT, SIGINT and OPINTEL.

When Innsworth had the plot, there were a fraction of the NFU dets as most were FU. Thus is was better back then. Now we have a greatly increased commitment, we have a trade that is not fully manned and we have inderviduals becoming unable to deploy at short notice. Furthermore, we now have more and more none specialist Int roles that need filling as that is the nature of the operations we are involved in.

You can now see the full plot yourselves and hopefully have the nouse to realise that a great deal of (impartial) effort goes in to making the plot work. If you cannot see the full picture of the whole trade, all the commitments and the reasons why they are needed don't make snap statements about how things are run. We can assure you that it would be a great deal worse if Air Manning took the plot back, as they would not have the knowledge of inderviduals, unit commitments, and inderviduals experience. It won't ever be perfect, but there are people working very hard for the trade to make it fair all and yet to support the operational need.
Petty, uninformed comments do not help, if you have a real issue, I suggest you formally raise it up the command chain.

LC

 

[FOMz]

Petty, uninformed comments do not help, if you have a real issue, I suggest you formally raise it up the command chain.

LC

And this is an unofficial RAF forum where everyone is allowed to air their views and vent their spleen, maybe you need to remember that! DT_Xtremez_14:

 

[int chimp]

thank you FOMZ.

this is a place for us nobodys to have a say how it actually is.

there is no point having a winge officially through the chain of command.

what would that achieve? i think it would ensure you would be on the longest crappiest det in the history of INT AN-ing.

I am sure Lincolnshire Central would say it doesn't work like that but someone in power would be thinking - F*** this winging sod lets nail em.

 

[The Enduring Sarge]

The way I see things is that at last we have a fairly transparent det plot, one where people know what their commitments for the near future. Before this you were told that you third in line for a det and that was about it.

Lincolnshire Central has given a moderate and clear indication of how things work, and whilst there is a touch of the same old argument being repeated it never fails to amaze how often reasons need clarifying.

From Int chimps comments it appears that the individual concerned will argue about anything, and whilst this is a forum where-by you can pretty much say what you want there does come a point at which you don't help yourself.

Zippy as far as I was aware the Voice guys are not part of our trade and so do not affect the det plot. And as for the Comms guys, work with them and see what they do. I am also fairly sure that they see the Imagery side the way the Imagery side view them. We both had ivory towers that we sat in and kept our distance. What I am seeing now in some respects is a repeat of the plotters versus photogs days.

We all have a job to do, and this is a changing world. If you are given a short notice det, and I have been there, then you could either look at it as if you have been stiffed and whinge moan and drip the whole tour. Or look at it as you are the best man for the job, that you have chosen above all your peers and get out there and enjoy it.

By the way when did we go to 6 month dets?

 

[Int bloke]

Utter rubbish.

The det plot was working fairly well up until some monkey took it away from the Innsworth/High Wycombe trade desk. Sure, it was a 1 man band, but it's now a team of 3. Give it them back.

The amount of Det's that mug the Imagery guys with a months notice is shocking, do the Comms and Voice side at senior level get the same treatment? Prob not.

Why should the Imagery side suffer when the others sit on their fat behinds in Digby and Cyprus?

Trade WO should be neutral. Maybe an admin monkey.

For all (but maybe Zippy in particular),

Having not that long ago returned from a sunny 4 monther (yes I know they have gone to 6, I lucked in with a 'short-notice' det!), of the 3 or 4 Snecs, and 1 JNCO in RC(S) HQ there were only 2 of us with an I at the end of my Int An (and the other guy was a new post). To the best of my knowledge, the replacements for those guys (certainly mine was) are mostly C's.

That would appear to be a fair, impartial balance to me for the NFU posts. TIW of course has a large number of bods away, but such is the nature of that beast I guess.

Prior to the det, I had several chats with waddo, the impression I got was they were doing the best they could for me and my unit

This is not intended as an inflammatory post, just how I saw it recently.

 

[Crabbity Ann]

...look at it as you are the best man for the job, that you have chosen above all your peers and get out there and enjoy it.

DT_Xtremez_17:DT_Xtremez_31:DT_Xtremez_17:DT_Xtremez_31:DT_Xtremez_17:DT_Xtremez_31:

I agree with most of what you said but, come on, srsly? Maybe I've just worked in really sh!t places under extremely poor man-management but every det I've ever been on (except the one I volunteered for) I have been very well aware that it is a case of bums on seats and nothing at all to do with skill and ability. I don't just mean me, I mean at least the other couple of hundred IAs I've worked with over the last few years.

The thing that annoys me about our dets isn't the length or frequency but that there is very little thought put into suitability of candidates vs job description. I do understand its probably because we don't have the luxury of having a million and one bods to choose from but there is still room for improvement from the planning side of things.

I remember a stacker friend being chosen for a particular det because she'd gone out and got the Q that was needed for that job. I like the idea of that and I think with a bit of effort it could translate to us.

It's assumed in our trade that everybody can do any job so we don't seem to have any Q system (other than the IAC which doesn't and probably never will cover everything an IA might need to know), I don't know why because that's not even rational thought. Some people just aren't cut out for certain jobs, even if they have passed the IAC and some jobs require people with hands on experience. We all get the same training, true but we all have different strengths and weaknesses and all pass at different levels. Why do we ignore this?

Time and time again I've witnessed IAs out of their depth, being sent on dets that they just aren't qualified or ready to do. While they're out there I've seen the guys that are the SMEs and/or experienced and ready for these jobs sent to do jobs that any old chimp can do.

I say we should bring in a Q system like most other trades, as far as I know, seem to operate. It'll mean getting a lot of people through trg so that the same people don't continuously get dicked for the same det but it'll be worth it.

 

[The Enduring Sarge]

CA
interesting that you picked that bit to quote. My experience shows that for short notice dets it is usually the more suited who are picked. I also agree that there can be a percieved suitability issue, however as most dets are now focussed on the Int side of things then this is probably negligible. When I would get narked is when a C gets an imagery det and vice versa. With LC doing the det plot this will not happen.

On the Q side of things, again LC correct if I am out of date, we have/had Q-Tac and Q-Strat annotations. There may be others but I am currently out the loop slightly being where I am.

What I would suggest is that those of us who do notice shortfalls in knowledge whilst on det feed these back to the guys who run the IAC, naming no names, and suggest ways that improvements can be made. It might be that they say thanks, now go forth, but at least the effort has been made.

Everyone can find fault, it is the remedies that are needed.

 

[Firm Ovary Syntax Slap]

Everyone can find fault, it is the remedies that are needed.

Or you could...

stfu

 

[Magnum Magnum PI]

Woh woh woh,

Its all very well putting people on det with the skillz and personality for the job, but that is pie in the sky. We are already going on det pretty damn frequently, if we start picking people for the skills over the last deployment time then those with the right stuff are gonna get screwed!
Now some jobs need certain experience and i know that if its in the job spec that they will pick the next available with that tick for the post. But for some, going on det is the only way to get them skills.
Personnally, I don't wanna go on det for 6 months every 6 months! So i'm happy sending out some of our less qualified when its their turn.
What we need to do is make sure that the training is there for them to do to go out. UKIAC is not enough for an IA, you need time in as well. But for the Int any jobs there are loads of courses you can do like TLP and that Peiac cse at Chix.

I am a big fan of deploying desert dodgers. If they don't like it then get the f**k outta my service. If you aint qualified, you get 6 to 8 months notice (its on the intraweb now), don't squinny, get yersen qualified.

 

[LOZ]

Zippy, if you think people at Diggers are sat around on their fat asses then I would suggest you have no idea what goes on in that place and how much important work is done both there and on the huge number of detachments that Diggers is currently responsible for above and beyond the DWR list. Having seen both sides of the picture I suggest that your neck be wound in and you wake up to the bigger picture. Narrowmindedness isn't the best trait in our trade now is it!?

I'd have to agree that a lot of work goes on at Diggers. I started my career in Diggers on the (C) side of things and am now sat watching the (I) side. Now I don't want all you bods in TIW to get your knickers in a twist because I understand that you're off to the waterless beach every couple of weeks, but in the overall scheme of things the Imagery lot appear to have a slightly easier life than those on shift in Lincoln. Whilst there may be a good few people that have spent the majority of their careers within 20 miles of Lincoln, that doesn't mean that Diggers is an easy ride.

 

[horror gunt aubergine]

I'd have to agree that a lot of work goes on at Diggers. I started my career in Diggers on the (C) side of things and am now sat watching the (I) side. Now I don't want all you bods in TIW to get your knickers in a twist because I understand that you're off to the waterless beach every couple of weeks, but in the overall scheme of things the Imagery lot appear to have a slightly easier life than those on shift in Lincoln. Whilst there may be a good few people that have spent the majority of their careers within 20 miles of Lincoln, that doesn't mean that Diggers is an easy ride.

http://www.mengsbizarreadventure.com/uploads/smeg off you ****.jpg - LOZ?