One of my lads has confessed he 'passed' his last chance fitness test by getting someone else to run it for him. What the hell do I do with this information?! Push it up the chain and potentially see him kicked out (although he would've been P1-ed by now anyway) If I let it go unpunished it may lead to others thinking they can get away with it too. This moral dilemma has been keeping me up at night. Best advice I've had was to get the lad to turn himself in to the FS and let him deal with it. Maybe slopey shouldering the issue but at least my integrity will be intact and the lad will come across better if he fesses up himself than if I do it for him. Help.
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Punishment for fitness test cheat?
- Thread starter kinners
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Simple solution, get him to retake the test. You need to be careful though if it comes out in the wash that you did this or nothing then you'll be in the sh1te too.
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Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk
Sixty Percent Overlap
Sergeant
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Punishment for fitness test cheat?
I would agree with what busby states - infact you have the discretion and right to ORDER him to retake it knowing what you know and if he should pass it then others may need not get involved. Should he fail it (it sounds like he may) then that's his problem, it'll be out of your hands and into P1's. You've done your effectual part and it's not worth losing sleep or being ill over this matter - you've probably got better things at work to sort out.
Not only has this situation have implications on the other party who attended the RAFFT on your lad's behalf (he needs to be dealt accordingly with as well), this has the potential to drag the mirror techs in on this for being ineffective in their duty. My past experiences doing the RAFFT was to have, at hand, my ID card to prove I was the booked individual taking the test.
I would agree with what busby states - infact you have the discretion and right to ORDER him to retake it knowing what you know and if he should pass it then others may need not get involved. Should he fail it (it sounds like he may) then that's his problem, it'll be out of your hands and into P1's. You've done your effectual part and it's not worth losing sleep or being ill over this matter - you've probably got better things at work to sort out.
Not only has this situation have implications on the other party who attended the RAFFT on your lad's behalf (he needs to be dealt accordingly with as well), this has the potential to drag the mirror techs in on this for being ineffective in their duty. My past experiences doing the RAFFT was to have, at hand, my ID card to prove I was the booked individual taking the test.
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I look like Bruce Willis
I Suck Like George Michael
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He has failed the service test. Immediately initiate disciplinary action.
If you'd prefer PM me his service details and I will gladly do it for you.
If there is one think I detest it is fitness test failures. As soon as my back is better I will pass mine as well.
If you'd prefer PM me his service details and I will gladly do it for you.
If there is one think I detest it is fitness test failures. As soon as my back is better I will pass mine as well.
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Not to mention the bloke who actually did it for him is also one more loose cannon to worry about. I would get this information surfaced on the basis of a private consulation with HR "regarding a delicate matter", pronto - which is to say, before the 1 of the 2 miscreants bottle it, and do it themselves.
T
Tubby
Guest
It will be his word against yours, the guy who ran it is unlikely to confess. I would report it up a level to some one you can freely talk to, explain you have been struggling how to deal with it due to the massive implications it has for the guy rather than yourself. Offer the suggestion that he is ordered to re-take it. He will then be in your managements sight from there on.
Alternatively, say nowt. Not the best way forward but it is his word against yours that he told you if anything comes of it.
Alternatively, say nowt. Not the best way forward but it is his word against yours that he told you if anything comes of it.
I do want to get the 'mirror techs' involved too, as the way my station runs it's tests is open to abuse. Even if he'd have shown his ID card at the booking in part he could have still given his bib to his runner while he hid in the changing room. I found out the day before we broke for Xmas so have had plenty of time to mull it over. I'm. 100% going to pass it up the chain, I want the little **** that did it for him punished too. I'm caught between a rock and hard place of looking a total ******* for grassing and potentially ensuring this lad gets his p45, that's why I want him to go to FS before I do. But at the end of the day...he's brought it on himself. He had 6 months to improve from level 8 something to 9-10. And he couldn't. So he cheated.
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I dunno Tubby....
...it's a different world now, and that's why RISE is a good thing IMHO. For examples like this.
...it's a different world now, and that's why RISE is a good thing IMHO. For examples like this.
What do you mean by the RISE bit? That the lads have total disrespect for it?
T
Tubby
Guest
Rise AP1 etc.
I agree with what your saying hut sometimes you have to look after number 1. We don't know the OP's situation fully hence why I said it isn't the best way forward. The best option ia the one s/he looks like they are going to take and that is report it.
I agree with what your saying hut sometimes you have to look after number 1. We don't know the OP's situation fully hence why I said it isn't the best way forward. The best option ia the one s/he looks like they are going to take and that is report it.
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If its already on the grapevine you're home free. Just ensure your FS hears it on the grapevine. You could even come out looking good with a bit of Machiavellian manoeuvring. At this point you need to make the decision of A.) Get him to fess straight away because if you've heard the grapevine then pound to a pinch of poo the FS will have.
B.) Get in there first and ask that the FS handles it in such a way that does not put you in a difficult position with the team.
Either way you need top cover from the start. In the olden days a Sgt could have easily handled this (and I'm sure you could have as well) and whatever happened the Mgt would have backed you, in today's pishy, wishy, washy Air Force the spineless leadership will want documentary evidence etc.
My personal view is that due to the system at the moment he has felt the need to breach the values we require in our people, I am always being told
look at the systems that causes people to act this way and improve that as well. I am not going to get on a high horse about the fitness test angle as we all know that when it wasn't a ridiculously over important stat out was common for the PTIs mates to get a stamp or for a beer donation for their next camping trip the requisite level could be achieved.
B.) Get in there first and ask that the FS handles it in such a way that does not put you in a difficult position with the team.
Either way you need top cover from the start. In the olden days a Sgt could have easily handled this (and I'm sure you could have as well) and whatever happened the Mgt would have backed you, in today's pishy, wishy, washy Air Force the spineless leadership will want documentary evidence etc.
My personal view is that due to the system at the moment he has felt the need to breach the values we require in our people, I am always being told
look at the systems that causes people to act this way and improve that as well. I am not going to get on a high horse about the fitness test angle as we all know that when it wasn't a ridiculously over important stat out was common for the PTIs mates to get a stamp or for a beer donation for their next camping trip the requisite level could be achieved.
Dan_Brown
Sergeant
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You say when you "interviewed" him - that sounds official:
a. Did you make a record? (if not make one sharpish! If at the time, you could have got him to sign the record).
b. I think your option of doing "nowt" has now gone, if it all goes pete tong and it comes out somewhere he will drop anyone in it to try to save his ass ie "I told Sgt xx about it, he did nothing, so i thought it was OK".
I'm not sure ordering him to retake is the way forward, if he fails and it sounds like he will questions will be asked as to why he is taking it when 'he' has already passed - it will inevitably all come out.
If you made your chain aware and TOLD them that is your planned CoA then you should get backing or they will take it out of your hands and deal with it.
We had the a similar scenario at another unit where fat boy got his mate to pass it, but unbeknowm to them a lad from another section recognised he wasn't who he claimed to be. The PTI let him run the test and then told him they were aware of the scam, both got MAA'd and fat boy had to retake.
Just my opinion, but i personally would be covering my ass in all this.
a. Did you make a record? (if not make one sharpish! If at the time, you could have got him to sign the record).
b. I think your option of doing "nowt" has now gone, if it all goes pete tong and it comes out somewhere he will drop anyone in it to try to save his ass ie "I told Sgt xx about it, he did nothing, so i thought it was OK".
I'm not sure ordering him to retake is the way forward, if he fails and it sounds like he will questions will be asked as to why he is taking it when 'he' has already passed - it will inevitably all come out.
If you made your chain aware and TOLD them that is your planned CoA then you should get backing or they will take it out of your hands and deal with it.
We had the a similar scenario at another unit where fat boy got his mate to pass it, but unbeknowm to them a lad from another section recognised he wasn't who he claimed to be. The PTI let him run the test and then told him they were aware of the scam, both got MAA'd and fat boy had to retake.
Just my opinion, but i personally would be covering my ass in all this.
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T
Tubby
Guest
It's easy for us to say what is best as we type from afar. The two options I gave I believe are the only two realistic options available.
The better option as I pointed to was the first, report it up the chain. Even better now that we know the secret only came out on the last day of work. It's nothing that couldn't wait until thier return to work. Remember, action needs to be taken at the earliest reasonable oppurtunity.
Finding that out when he did and acting on it first thing after the festive break I would imagine falls in to that catergory. P1, like most other sections at that time are probably gone or very thinned out.
The better option as I pointed to was the first, report it up the chain. Even better now that we know the secret only came out on the last day of work. It's nothing that couldn't wait until thier return to work. Remember, action needs to be taken at the earliest reasonable oppurtunity.
Finding that out when he did and acting on it first thing after the festive break I would imagine falls in to that catergory. P1, like most other sections at that time are probably gone or very thinned out.
The interview was as part of a hastily prepared MPAR (I'm his bladdy 1st RO just to add extra spice) I used the proper template off the JSP and we both signed it. The fitness aspect got mentioned as he's under a formal warning for the failure...which was a great lead in to me popping the question. You're right, if it gets found out that I knew and did eff all then it's my integrity that gets called into question. Thanks everyone for your input. There's so many angles to this case, and I just want to do the right thing, for me, the Sqn, and I don't want this situation happening again!
Sixty Percent Overlap
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Punishment for fitness test cheat?
Kinners, there's some sound advice above from what appears to be from present and past experienced SNCOs and the appropriate CoA is there for you to take.
It really annoys me that the stupidity of one individual has had this effect, both directly and indirectly, on others into this particular situation. I hoped I would never would state this but, in this instance, I actually hope your SAC does get the book thrown at him (it sound like he's known within his CoC about his past attitude to the RAFFT) and he's gone. I also hope the Stn Cdr will be made aware of the failings you've identified with the way the mirror techs are handling the RAFFT on his/her unit.
It just boils my blood at times that leadership can't exercised when it needs to these days in fear of senior management questioning the integrity of a SNCO (personal experience) and an example needs to be made of this SAC to show what leadership is - not just to SAC however's colleagues in his section but to fellow Sqn SNCOs. Crikey, I'm starting to sound like ILLBW!
Notify your FS upon your return, it might be worth dropping him/her a text/call in the meantime to ask for a chat first thing. Your FS should have your back, if not then this circumstance is a good opportunity show him/her and others on your Sqn how to lead.
Kinners, there's some sound advice above from what appears to be from present and past experienced SNCOs and the appropriate CoA is there for you to take.
It really annoys me that the stupidity of one individual has had this effect, both directly and indirectly, on others into this particular situation. I hoped I would never would state this but, in this instance, I actually hope your SAC does get the book thrown at him (it sound like he's known within his CoC about his past attitude to the RAFFT) and he's gone. I also hope the Stn Cdr will be made aware of the failings you've identified with the way the mirror techs are handling the RAFFT on his/her unit.
It just boils my blood at times that leadership can't exercised when it needs to these days in fear of senior management questioning the integrity of a SNCO (personal experience) and an example needs to be made of this SAC to show what leadership is - not just to SAC however's colleagues in his section but to fellow Sqn SNCOs. Crikey, I'm starting to sound like ILLBW!
Notify your FS upon your return, it might be worth dropping him/her a text/call in the meantime to ask for a chat first thing. Your FS should have your back, if not then this circumstance is a good opportunity show him/her and others on your Sqn how to lead.
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Vushtrri
Sergeant
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As you've said...He brought it upon himself and by doing so showed that he had no consideration as the the predicament that would befall another should they find out about his deceit... Deserves all he gets......and that's from a fat ******* who used to bust a gut every year doing my PSU physical and half killing myself in the process.
Dan_Brown
Sergeant
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Of course the 2 x scrotes could get their heads together and deny everything! After all they have a lot to lose. Could get nasty, scuffers getting involved, witness statements etc......!!!
Is he any good at his job? If he was one of the better lads then I'd ignore it to be honest. Just make sure he improves his fitness for next time, accompany him to the gym to encourage him. Running up and down between two cones is hardly the most important thing in the world is it?
If he is a bit of waster then I'd maybe think differently.
If he is a bit of waster then I'd maybe think differently.