Promotion - would you take it?

[Downsizer]

One for the serving guys I guess...

Promotion, would you take it? Is there any reason to take one anymore? Is it purely down to the location/job you get offered?

Had this dilemma myself recently and it’s not straightforward anymore is it...

 

[ady eflog]

I turned my crown down due to a poor decision by manning, I had told them for months where would be acceptable, they chose not to look at my options and came back with the usual BS about how I was the only man for the job etc... I'll do the same again next time, if it doesn't suit I wont be taking it.

 

[Late & Tired]

Yes, I grabbed it.
WO to Mr.
Never looked back...

 

[chumpzilla]

Depends on what rank you are going to be promoted into and what trade you are.

For me, i don't want to be a FS as it will pretty much guarantee a posting to TCW and a ridiculous amount of SJARS to write; somewhere in the region of:
25 2ROs for SAC/12 for Cpl and...

5 1ROs for Sgts

.... then all of the other work that gets pushed onto your desk.

.... then being expected to mentor your JO....and so on.

However, if I got to go where I wanted: Location, etc then I would consider it. But that's not the way it works. Unless you're an absolute screamer and cry off, which I am not. So, in fact no....I'm happy to stay where I am and see out my 22 years and leave with my hair intact, albeit slightly greyer.

 

[4everAD]

What hasn't been mentioned yet is pay, the pay rise from Sgt to FS is pathetic for the extra work involved. In my case I'm already on SDRP so if promoted I would get a 2% pay rise then nothing other than the 1% (if we're lucky) for 4 years. In effect they'd almost be getting a FS for free. It's only the pension jump (I have 25 years on AFPS75) that makes I worth taking.

 

[chumpzilla]

What hasn't been mentioned yet is pay, the pay rise from Sgt to FS is pathetic for the extra work involved. In my case I'm already on SDRP so if promoted I would get a 2% pay rise then nothing other than the 1% (if we're lucky) for 4 years. In effect they'd almost be getting a FS for free. It's only the pension jump (I have 25 years on AFPS75) that makes I worth taking.

An exceptionally valid point. Another reason for me not wanting the increased responsibility for very little reward.

 

[Witty_Banter]

It's certainly a much more complicated question that it was 5 years ago. Back then, I'd have probably grabbed it with both hands, along with whatever utterly rubbish posting they'd tied it to.

But these days things are very different. After 5 years of poor promotion numbers, and constantly being just beyond the cusp of the cut-off and getting overlooked (and seeing quite a few people who really shouldn't be promoted get there before me), I'm just old and bitter and twisted these days. I used to be able to picture myself as a lifer in the RAF, but no more.

I would probably still take the rank tabs if they were offered (primarily because Mrs WB would shoot me if I didn't), but I'll not be signing on for LOS30. The only incentive to take promotion now would be financial - it'll get me a few extra beer tokens a month, and a fractionally higher payout on my 22 - which I will NOT be working past. I can't see the point of signing up to LOS30 'so that I can PVR if I choose to', when things will run much more smoothly if I have a definitive end date (in theory).

I'd be quite interested to know if the higher-ups of the RAF think that there are still incentives to taking promotion. Other than a pay rise (pretty much the only chance to get one, and even then it'll be frozen until I'm almost out) and a fractionally better pension, what else is there?

The Mess? I don't think so. The Messes are a farcical draconian tradition that we've unfortunately been unwilling to let go of. I've coped quite well without a Mess for 16 years, I see no reason why I would want to join a club that forces membership (and fees) but doesn't offer me anything useful in return (and no, the occasional forced-fun dining in and out don't count). Oh, and more uniform, that you have to pay for!

Additional responsibility? I've been taking on SNCO roles for the best part of a decade, what's the difference???

Better postings? Nope. Same rubbish areas, just less people to go around so less chance of moving if you want to.

Sorry people but I can't see it. If the offer came in tomorrow, and was tied to a particularly rubbish posting (either too far to commute or overseas or just a lousy shift job) then I'd probably have to say no thanks.

 

[MattBombHead]

For me, i decided a couple of years ago i wasn't going to live in a Barrack Block and be a weekend dad, so any postings would need to be commutable. Then i got my LTD 14miles from home and i'm happy.

IF (and its a big if) i got offered promotion, i would want to stay on the unit i'm at now, but theres 1x SNCO Wpns job here, and thats moving to Cranwell (apparently) in the not to distant future, so any promotion would mean a posting, and therefore would almost certainly mean living in the block.

Financially, i'm on SDRP, so would get the 5% payrise on promotion then nothing for 4-5yrs. I'd also be paying accomodation, extra food, and of course the cost of travelling back home at weekends. The extra pension is negligable, although the gratuity is higher.

And thats before we even get near to thinking about the state of the RAF currently, with less people about to cover the jobs that need doing, longer and more frequent OOAs, the erosion of almost everything that once made this a great job.

Sorry, but for me, unless it came with a posting that suited me, i'd turn it down almost without a second thought.

In fact, even if it did come with an ideal posting, i'd have to think long and hard about taking it or not.

 

[rocket scientist]

I was never a promotion chaser up to Sgt but once I'd got that I thought it would be nice to at least get to Chief so you could say that was the only rank I really pushed for. Now I've got 4 years left until LOS32, I'm looking forward to slowing down a bit so not bothered about FS but if it was offered on the right terms (location, job) I might be tempted.

 

[Barch]

What would you guys that would turn down promotion if the location wasn't to you liking do, if they posted you in rank then offered promotion the day you got to your new unit?

 

[rocket scientist]

What would you guys that would turn down promotion if the location wasn't to you liking do, if they posted you in rank then offered promotion the day you got to your new unit?

If the location was that bad I'd probably be PVRing anyway at this stage in my career.

 

[gray]

I had Wilts, Hants and London as my areas of choice - got promoted/posted to Northumberland !
Take it, or leave it....

Took it, did 3 years for the pension (and a bit) and PVR'd when i got posted back down South.

F' em.

 

[Witty_Banter]

What would you guys that would turn down promotion if the location wasn't to you liking do, if they posted you in rank then offered promotion the day you got to your new unit?

If you've already been posted in, then the question becomes almost purely financial - is it worth taking the extra workload for the payrise? I would assume that any promotion would lead to a different job than you'd originally been posted in to do, so you'd have to gauge what you'd be walking in to.

I'm not in a position where I can PVR (holding out for my 22), so I'd also have to factor in that I'm stuck - which does give the meager financial incentive a little more weight. At the moment I'm a weekend dad with a 260 mile round trip commute, so anything that made that worse or no longer practical would be an instant gamechanger (eg a posting to Scotland or NI, or overseas). Ironically, it takes the same amount of time to get from home to RAF Lincolnshire as it does to get to places that are actually over 50 miles further away - mainly because it takes an hour just to get out of Lincolnshire....

 

[commsordeath]

I turned down my 3rd last year, all because of the job/location offered (to my only negative location choice). Again was told I was the only person who could ever do that particular role, even though I had no previous experience. The Career Managers was quite shocked that someone would turn it down.

After trying the "Service Complaint" route and finding that this was not upheld my family made me choose between them or the Service - I found myself becoming angry and bitter with life in the Service so decided to make the decision to leave - within 4 months of submitting my PVR I have found myself in a job with a Defence Contractor on an RAF base nearby and feel a lot happier and less stressed with life.

Getting Manning to approve brining my exit date forward was a bit of a pain but from getting the job offer to leaving was 5 weeks.

I was asked by my Line Manager what would it take to keep me in - my suggestion of my 3rd, 18 months back pay and an MBE was met with a wry smile and reply of "well none of that's going to happen", and I have not heard anything from Manning if they can do anything to change my mind to leave or stay in.

 

[Spearmint]

Well we've just and a visit from Manning and those who wanted it, received a quick careers interview from them. Nobody got good news, even the guy asking about a Last Tour. I was even told with 2.5yrs left and a B overall on my last SJAR (Cheers Royal Navy!) that I've no chance for further promotion and even if they did offer it I would tell them no......been passed over far too many times now to care.

It'll be interesting to see what the RAF do to retain TG1 experience as the Navy will soon be getting what is effectively Engineers pay. PO's on an extra £5 a day with LH's on £3.50.

So assuming the RAF can't (won't) match it, within the Lightning Force at least you'll have a 3 tier system with the Navy on top, then the RAF and finally the last of the Armourers who haven't banged out languishing near the bottom of the pay ladder, doing in some respects, the same job.

Roll on 2020.

 

[MattBombHead]

At a brief by a 1* a couple of weeks ago attended by a Wg Cdr from Pay and Pensions, it was stated that Pay Protection is likely to be extended to 2024 to try and avoid a mass PVR from those on SDRP. This has been signed off as far as possible, and is awaiting treasury approval.

In the same brief, they hinted at some 'targeted FRIs' for 'Technical Trades', but wouldn't be drawn on ranks or trades.

Thats about all they can do to stop folk leaving in droves...

 

[Jack Of All]

I don't know if it's just because I'm barely half way through my planned career or what but I'd snap their hands off if offered a promotion.
I wouldn't care if it meant a posting to somewhere not in my preferences, when I signed up to the military I knew I could end up sent in to whatever post they might need me in. Such is the life I willingly signed up for.
I'm at the top of my current rank's pay levels so the only hope of getting some more money is the promotion.
I signed up for the full career and pension at the end of it so I'd be happy for any eventual pension benefits with the promotion.

OOA frequencies and lengths don't bother me, again I knew what I might be letting myself in for when I signed the dotted line.
I can, however, understand some of the frustration on this topic from some trades where their manpower is ridiculously low, the RAF is full of non deployable bods mixed in to that, so some people do find themselves away a fair amount more than you would expect.

 

[dctyke]

Interesting how this will pan out when the judgement on equal pay in the civ world (Tesco and so on) that's currently a hot topic in the news

edit, should have come out as a reply to # 15

 

[StickyFingers]

Nope.

The crappy £100 a month pay rise I'd get after mess bills (and I'd make time on that same pay for it until I left at my 22) and that would be nothing compared to losing the wife's wage if the promotion come with a posting and you can guarantee the new quarter will be on the new FAM model pay and would cost far more than I'm currently paying.

I don't want to move the kids too, they are happy now, seems selfish dragging them out of another school to further my career, oh we can't call it that anymore sorry, job.

I also don't care about the kudos of the rank, mans nothing to me.

 

[ERT]

Yes, become substantive then submit the PVR.

Promotion would be a £2700 a year increase before tax...however i would freeze at that point for 2 years.