Lean, CIE, RIE, VSA

[Ex-Splitter and Proud]

TB, you should know me well enough (without me telling you), to know that....
DT_Xtremez_06:
I was taking the .....
DT_Xtremez_42:

I've gone on the record here, previously regarding LEAN, etc. The 'Dark Side' here embraced this hot potato a long while ago. They still send their junior/middle managers away on 3 week courses for LEAN (yes that's right - 15 working days away!!! At what cost?) Part of their training is to examine their own areas and perform audit/analysis and make recommendations.

We had one who (quite understandably) decided he'd look at processes that affected him, but which belonged to us, in an effort to smooth production flow. Unfortunately, although he had good knowledge and understanding of his own area, responsibilities and processes, he didn't have a clue regarding ours.

Cue a rather interesting debate about legal, contractual and other aspects....DT_Xtremez_42:

DT_Xtremez_35:When he regained consciousness and the power of sight and speech again, we pointed out that, whilst we were ever keen to improve our ways of working, they might benefit more from sorting their own mess out before trying to circumvent their problems by foisting them onto us.

Like you say, any professional team SNCO/manager can (and should) be looking at their area of responsibility to see if improvements can be made - indeed, in my experience most DO. They're the experts in their area/field, they know their jobs, teams, legislation, etc - so let them manage. I think most SNCOs, JNCOs, team leaders, managers also welcome SOME objective outside scrutiny of the way they work - we can all learn, can't we?

But like you say, when somebody with no experience of an area comes in to your territory, spouting theories, upsetting an environment that works and sets out to invent that elusive round thing.... a wheel, well, yes, it does get a little frustrating (to say the least!)

You have my sympathies, TB - grab a cup of corrrfeee!

Next time they come round, you can always hide those bits and pieces in the locker behind... well, that'd be telling, wouldn't it?DT_Xtremez_06:
DT_Xtremez_30:

 

[Rigga]

I think you should all read "Who moved my Cheese" and see where you fit.

No, really - I think you should!

See if you can get it from your library - should take about 1 hour to read (in the library?) and put it back.

If you want your own - about a fiver from amazon.

I sit my workforce down to read it as they join - and then we chat.

 

[Ex-Splitter and Proud]

I think you should all read "Who moved my Cheese" and see where you fit.

No, really - I think you should!

See if you can get it from your library - should take about 1 hour to read (in the library?) and put it back.

If you want your own - about a fiver from amazon.

I sit my workforce down to read it as they join - and then we chat.

Tried the video? Well worth the effort!DT_Xtremez_30:

For what it's worth - I have no problems/issues with "Change"....

However, "Change for change's sake" is a different matter.
DT_Xtremez_42:

 

[Rigga]

Good to see that ESaP - But how many on here know where they fit?

The whole of the RAF is built about changes - agreed, some have no real point.

Especially when its just about rodney's reorganising (hiding) something that doesnt work into something else that doesnt work (!) which in turn screws the rest of you guys about, who complain that the rodney's organisation doesnt work - so they change it again. Etc, etc.

I suppose my point is that the rodneys dont know what they're doing so they seek comfort in doing what they do know which is what they've been taught at Sleaford Tech Business Mismanagement college - reorganise! reorganise! reorganise! - leadership! leadership! leadership!

..its just a pity they got to the second reorganise! and forgot there was something else...

 

[Tin basher]

For what it's worth - I have no problems/issues with "Change".... However, "Change for change's sake" is a different matter. DT_Xtremez_42:

Spot on my view entirely. Change for change sake is usually a pointless waste of effort and is done only to prove that some dweeb in authority has the power to change things. Said dweeb does not always have the wit or intellect to improve things.


edited to add wiki link to cheese analogy

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Who_Moved_My_Cheese?

 

[PTR Hoar]

My workplace is currently undergoing an RIE and one part of it kind of got my back up a bit. Standard work practises.
We are told that all those "tricks of the trade" people have should be available for everyone to see, very well I say to myself. So as part of our change week people will be spending a good bit of time writing these up, taking pictures and makin them all nice and shiny.
My problem is surely since we are doing this there is a problem in the AP system itself. We are told during the event to address the things that cover up problems and I made the point that if we have to separately display the SWP's then that in itself is hiding a problem with how AP/MP's are written.

I am fully aware of the vast amounts of work involved but does anyone else think we need a new way of writing these doc's?

 

[Joe_90]

There is a form that you can raise if there is a problem with an AP (I can't remember the number right now), raise one of them with the changes you think should go into the book.

 

[Tin basher]

There is a form that you can raise if there is a problem with an AP (I can't remember the number right now), raise one of them with the changes you think should go into the book.

It's F765. However the lead in time from you raising it to physically amending the actual AP tends to be quite long, years even. Unless it's a safety issue then things speed up some what.

 

[8:15fromOdium]

Perhaps the F765 system is ripe for a bit of VSA.

 

[Little Tronk]

My workplace is currently undergoing an RIE and one part of it kind of got my back up a bit. Standard work practises.
We are told that all those "tricks of the trade" people have should be available for everyone to see, very well I say to myself. So as part of our change week people will be spending a good bit of time writing these up, taking pictures and makin them all nice and shiny.
My problem is surely since we are doing this there is a problem in the AP system itself. We are told during the event to address the things that cover up problems and I made the point that if we have to separately display the SWP's then that in itself is hiding a problem with how AP/MP's are written.

I am fully aware of the vast amounts of work involved but does anyone else think we need a new way of writing these doc's?

Can't believe I'm actually going to say this but......................
.....................SWPs as you call them, I read 'Good Gen Books' are illegal HOWEVER, they can be approved (by min level K if I remember correctly) but can must not deviate from approved data; therefore in my view the result of the RIE in this area should be to put through F765s as required. Because it's an event I would like to think that you should have some high level buy in that can put some pressure on.

Ye Gods that sounds so sanctimonious!!

 

[PTR Hoar]

I've done a few 765's over the years and yes I agree the problem is it takes far far too long getting amendments done. What I'm wondering is if our method of writing ap's is ripe for change, I mean how many people do u know follow an AP exactly as it's written? I mean every part of it right to the letter in the order it's done and everything. We all know there are certain aspects that will never change for safety/equipment sake but if the system for us changing what we have was maybe not easier but quicker it might make people more willing to put in changes. I've no idea what the answer is or how to change it just thinking out loud is all!

 

[PTR Hoar]

Btw I'm not entirely sure about the point I'm trying to make, the mother in law is jabbering on and I'm finding it impossible to string together a proper discussion without being rudely interrupted by someone who uses their outside voice inside!!

 

[I look like Bruce Willis]

I mean how many people do u know follow an AP exactly as it's written? I mean every part of it right to the letter in the order it's done and everything.

Pardon?

Are you suggesting that people do not follow an AP to the letter. I find that impossible to believe.

APs should be taken on every job, just the other week I had to bring formal disciplinary action against an AMM I caught doing a B/F without a flight servicing schedule. It meant the Herrick trooper was delayed, but flight safety is far more important.

 

[PTR Hoar]

Pardon?

Are you suggesting that people do not follow an AP to the letter. I find that impossible to believe.

APs should be taken on every job, just the other week I had to bring formal disciplinary action against an AMM I caught doing a B/F without a flight servicing schedule. It meant the Herrick trooper was delayed, but flight safety is far more important.

Personally I either just cuff it from memory or use me aircrew pocket book that I nicked n filled with good gen, the qcit guys told me I'm not allowed it but they are all wimpy bitches with the courage and physical prowess of a newborn kitten.

 

[rest have risen above me]

the qcit guys told me I'm not allowed it but they are all wimpy bitches with the courage and physical prowess of a newborn kitten.

I'm afraid that I must agree, and will use this line the next time they place brown paper and post its in the same room as me.
DT_Xtremez_14: if that's ok with you.

 

[PTR Hoar]

I'm afraid that I must agree, and will use this line the next time they place brown paper and post its in the same room as me.
DT_Xtremez_14: if that's ok with you.

spread the word! DT_Xtremez_14:

 

[Rigga]

"I mean how many people do u know follow an AP exactly as it's written? I mean every part of it right to the letter in the order it's done and everything."

...A classic symptom of the delays you have in amending the APs. You know that its wrong and that an amendment isn't going to happen for (years?) some time - so you automatically work around it by doing what you think is required (please correct me if I'm wrong?)

The issue is the lack of an instant "temporary" answer or approval to do what the sengo says to do (even though he isnt qualified to approve it) This would give some temporary registration of the changes required and a method of approval to your dilemma while you wait for an official response (it would not be allowed in civvy street)

Good Luck guys - and remember there is no alleviation from litigation/prosecution for the Armed Forces anymore.