Land of Milk and Honey

[Tin basher]

Having my occasional mooch around UK local papers, I chanced upon this. Seems not every one demobbed gets headhunted into 50K a week jobs, with a company limo, 25 hour week, free yacht, 6 bed house with its own grounds, on suite super model secretary with blow jobs on Tuesday thrown in. Spare a thought for those leaving and entering the real world. You know that world the one where jobs are hard to find and being ex service just confuses people as to what you are capable of.

http://www.thisisstaffordshire.co.u...earchPhrase=ex+soldier+job&where=&searchType=

 

[Max]

Having my occasional mooch around UK local papers, I chanced upon this. Seems not every one demobbed gets headhunted into 50K a week jobs, with a company limo, 25 hour week, free yacht, 6 bed house with its own grounds, on suite super model secretary with blow jobs on Tuesday thrown in. Spare a thought for those leaving and entering the real world. You know that world the one where jobs are hard to find and being ex service just confuses people as to what you are capable of.

http://www.thisisstaffordshire.co.u...earchPhrase=ex+soldier+job&where=&searchType=

No the grass isn't always greener but I have considerably more experience and ability to offer than someone who did 6 years in the army. I wouldn't expect 50,000 a week or possibly even a year but I would certainly expect to be able to match what I'm on now, possibly by being willing to where the work is.

 

[vim_fuego]

First of all commiserations to his family...Awful waste of a life and a sad way to go.

Scant information in the story about his qualifications, his willingness to travel to work and what sector he was aiming for. He admitted to the Army before he left that he was feeling suicidal so I see a potential failing there...His family and friends are quoted as saying he hid his emotions well so perhaps he was seeing a doctor about his mood but just hadn't told people about it...In any case he sounded like he needed help before his unsuccessful job hunt began.

Some usual rants in the comments section of the paper...'Should be better looked after' being a common theme and I would agree, if he had admitted to wanting to kill himself to a doctor on discharge it should have been lit up in lights and followed up/through...But as to the rest of them once you leave you are one of the rest of them...there is little preferential treatment if any and you fight for what you can get with the masses...what was of the upmost importance to you whilst you served like duty, honour and standing shoulder to shoulder against anything to befall you and your comrades means the square root of feck all out here...get that straight in your head and a year or so after you leave it's natural to you and doesn't bother you too much at all.

 

[Realist78]

First of all commiserations to his family...Awful waste of a life and a sad way to go.

Scant information in the story about his qualifications, his willingness to travel to work and what sector he was aiming for. He admitted to the Army before he left that he was feeling suicidal so I see a potential failing there...His family and friends are quoted as saying he hid his emotions well so perhaps he was seeing a doctor about his mood but just hadn't told people about it...In any case he sounded like he needed help before his unsuccessful job hunt began.

Some usual rants in the comments section of the paper...'Should be better looked after' being a common theme and I would agree, if he had admitted to wanting to kill himself to a doctor on discharge it should have been lit up in lights and followed up/through...But as to the rest of them once you leave you are one of the rest of them...there is little preferential treatment if any and you fight for what you can get with the masses...what was of the upmost importance to you whilst you served like duty, honour and standing shoulder to shoulder against anything to befall you and your comrades means the square root of feck all out here...get that straight in your head and a year or so after you leave it's natural to you and doesn't bother you too much at all.

Sums it up quite nicely.

 

[Get Tae]

It is what you make of it really.

Don't expect everyone to snap to attention just because you served your country, no-one apart from other veterans gives a sh1te anyway.

In my experience there are lots of guys who leave and thrive out in civvy street.

The can do attitude, tempered with modern day HSE thinking will get you a long way and noticed pretty quickly.

I know of several guys who left as Cpl's and are now on upwards of double the 50k you speak of.

It is out there but I have had several emails lately from folks leaving soon who seem to think it is their god given right to walk into a 50k job working a 2 day week.

Wisen up you don't walk into something like that (unless you are really lucky!).

What you can expect is that with a bit of work you can be easily on a substantially greater amount than the pittance the RAF pay and out here you are paid for what you are qualified for.

Example:

The guy lifting the front gate get the same as the admin pencil pusher gets the same as the cook whereas the engineers get paid lots more, just like the RAF used to be and still should be!

Come on out, its a different colour of green but one in which your abilities, training and qualifications are rewarded with much better pay and not taken the **** out of.

 

[Max]

Come on out, its a different colour of green but one in which your abilities, training and qualifications are rewarded with much better pay and not taken the **** out of.

Most definitely a nicer shade of green to the one we are heading for too.

 

[SCAFITE]

Life out there

Life out there

Naivety is something that all of us who have been in the Military suffer from, we may not like to admit it but we do. Remember most of you have been in since school or just after and the RAF like all other large organisations will try to make you come round to their way of thinking. Loyalty is something the RAF take for granted and most of us have given it willingly over the years. With the defence cuts and redundancies of the nineties through to the latest SDSR, if the lack of RAF loyalty has come as a shock, then you are really suffering from naivety.

The ones who seem to have the problems are the ones in the service who are told the sun is flowing from their rears and how special they are. The rest of the tribe including barrier lifters, Cooks, bottle washers and others like good old Stackers of which I am ex of the blanket tech’s, on the whole were never subject to the you are so special and the service could not do without you. So on leaving it was no different just got on with the job or in my case running my own business.

There are elements of my time in the RAF I do miss, but overall I was surprised as were close friends in how quickly I settled in to civilian life. I have recently had contact with the RAF to do with my business and I went to the Station as a businessman not as an ex RAF SNCO. I now rarely mention my time in the service to folk other than ex-service; there does not seem a need to. Don’t get me wrong I am proud of my time in the RAF, but it is not the be all and end all.

It is really sad to see the Royal Air Force cut to the bone,but the only positive is that no matter whom you are, barrier lifters, hot shot Engineers or part of the winged master race all have been Rubber Dicked across the board. Go on the pprune and see them moaning over there about how dare the RAF do this to me I am so important blahblah blah.

The bottom line is no matter what trade you are in the RAF you have got skills that are needed in the big wide world and the same for our Naval Folk. The main problem seems to be the Army and it seems to be across the board from young Soldiers leaving after3 or 4 year to experienced soldiers. In my opinion I think the problem is the way we do our service, in the RAF we tend to be all individuals who get posted on your own. Every time you move to a new Station you have got to make new mates and get on with a new range of folks at work, this is a skill set that is preparing you sub-consciously for your eventual discharge. In the Army especially within the Regiment system it is very much like a big family, you get posted together and sometime know and work with the same folk over a long period. Once you leave this it must be a terrible wrench to the system, and remember what some of these poor sods have been going through over the last 10 years or so. Seeing these close mates being killed or injured and in quite high statistical numbers within certain battalions, is it little wonder that some are not coping very well out of the Army. I have met Ex-Army folk who are doing very well so it is not the actual job skills, and our friendly Rocks seem to be ok with their Crack on attitude which serves them well.

Once you are out you will soon learn that the new number one is you and your family and nobody else, you will soon shed your naivety about loyalty and soon accept that moving between jobs is all part of life.

Good luck to all.

 

[Max]

Once you are out you will soon learn that the new number one is you and your family and nobody else, you will soon shed your naivety about loyalty and soon accept that moving between jobs is all part of life.

Good luck to all.

I think you'll find a lot of us already put our family above the forces hence the PVR rate over the last few years. I have no naivety or loyalty to the RAF as such I am using it for AT and courses as much as I can and will have the added bonus of a permanent income even if I choose to sit at home once I'm out.

What actually annoys me is the way that a lot of the higher echelons seem to think there is no problem and that we're all loving it.

 

[Noidea]

What actually annoys me is the way that a lot of the higher echelons seem to think there is no problem and that we're all loving it.

Sorry buddy, but this is rubbish. I dont for one second think that the higher echelons think there is no problem. As much as we would probably hate to admit it they are actually quite bright people! The reality is that they dont whinge, whine and moan in front of us mere mortals so we just dont see it. They will be acutely aware that there are extreme difficulties, that are issues with morale and retention and that there is a problem at the moment. Yes they do impart the party line and quite often you can detect that they dont beleive it themselves. But I would not wish, for one second, for our senior leaders to moan in front of us - that wouldnt be right, wouldnt be leadership and would be, quite frankly, wrong.

 

[The Masked Geek]

on suite super model secretary with blow jobs on Tuesday thrown in.

I think I need to revisit my contract. I seem to have missed that one out. DT_Xtremez_14:

 

[vim_fuego]

Sorry buddy, but this is rubbish. I dont for one second think that the higher echelons think there is no problem. As much as we would probably hate to admit it they are actually quite bright people! The reality is that they dont whinge, whine and moan in front of us mere mortals so we just dont see it. They will be acutely aware that there are extreme difficulties, that are issues with morale and retention and that there is a problem at the moment. Yes they do impart the party line and quite often you can detect that they dont beleive it themselves. But I would not wish, for one second, for our senior leaders to moan in front of us - that wouldnt be right, wouldnt be leadership and would be, quite frankly, wrong.

True...They have a job to do and a mission to carry out...I'm assuming Max wants one of our upper echelon to stand up and say 'enough!' If this were to happen that person although having some respect from some of us (be mindful that a number of us would say 'what a waste of a position') would be replaced forthwith with somebody who says 'carry on!'

I'm sure if given the purse strings with little constraint or political interference our military leaders could turn the forces around to something more acceptable to those that serve...However, The reality is that their primary drivers are money and political policy...we don't have enough of the first and too much of the latter!

 

[NigeC]

I have seen over the years, since I came out, that you are just a "bum on a seat" to do the work

Loyality is not appreciated so I look after me and my family and if it is not in my Job Description, I don't do it -

Have had my knucles wrapped far too many times for being "too helpful" so I "don't" help and the system wonders why things go wrong DT_Xtremez_42:

 

[Stevienics]

I have seen over the years, since I came out, that you are just a "bum on a seat" to do the work

Loyality is not appreciated so I look after me and my family and if it is not in my Job Description, I don't do it -

Have had my knucles wrapped far too many times for being "too helpful" so I "don't" help and the system wonders why things go wrong DT_Xtremez_42:

It is as it has always been, in our out of the the service.

You work towards doing something no-one else can do, and whatever you do, you do not tell anyone the details of it.

When your position is estabilshed, your net value is then determined by your absence, not your presence.

 

[Max]

Yes it would be nice for once not to be treated like an idiot and for them to admit there is a problem and that unfortunately they can do nothing about it, I would have a lot more time and respect for anyone who did.

I'm not asking them to moan or whinge, what I say may be construed as such but I'm just sad at the way the Air Force has gone and would like to see that they feel the same.

 

[XVR RA RA RA]

True...They have a job to do and a mission to carry out...I'm assuming Max wants one of our upper echelon to stand up and say 'enough!' If this were to happen that person although having some respect from some of us (be mindful that a number of us would say 'what a waste of a position') would be replaced forthwith with somebody who says 'carry on!'

I'm sure if given the purse strings with little constraint or political interference our military leaders could turn the forces around to something more acceptable to those that serve...However, The reality is that their primary drivers are money and political policy...we don't have enough of the first and too much of the latter!

The thing is Vim. If the "yes men" don't stand up and voice their true opinions nothing will change for the better. Overwise give "them" an inch and next year "they" will want a mile, and so on.

 

[vim_fuego]

The thing is Vim. If the "yes men" don't stand up and voice their true opinions nothing will change for the better. Overwise give "them" an inch and next year "they" will want a mile, and so on.

I counter that with knowing when to keep your powder dry...

I agree it would be smashing for CAS to stand up and in a loud and confident voice 'You are stripping away my capability to fight and I won't stand for it anymore'...That would be amazing and for a few days before he is found alternative employment and a new man shuffled into office everyone serving would hold him in high esteem.

The new guy moves in, hand picked at short notice, known for not being contencious (after the last week of discontent they will choose a known company man to steady the ship) and he carries on probably in a less effective manner due to not being choice number one and perhaps getting it a little before his time.

Or CAS no.1 could have bit his lip knowing that that kind of outburst is short lived and easily forgotten and used his intelligence to achieve what he could from the inside rather than giving up his seat to a lesser man. At scrote level where the majority of us reside it looks quite black and white sometimes...At their level I think it's a lot more colourful!