Kier fails to tell the truth

[busby1971]

Let's be clear, the Cabinet Office is under a tory minister because all government departments are overseen by government ministers. Like all departmental civil servants, the CS in the Cabinet Office are bound by the CS code to be unbiased in terms of political interventions and to apply the rules and make decisions in a non-political manner. So are you saying that the CS in the Cabinet Office have themselves breached the CS code? A serious charge and one that should be reported. In doing so, you may wish to remember that Sue Gray was herself the 2nd most senior civil servant in the Cabinet Office and, therefore, if there is a culture of political bias in that department the past senior leadership may have to be held to account and their own leadership & biases (if any...) questioned.,

Some people may not appear to understand the Cabinet Office’s role in running the civil service, they might also not understand how the civil service runs, even if they work within it.

 

[busby1971]

Remind me why Sue Gray headed the enquiry and not Simon Case?

Because Simon Case felt he might have been involved and therefore potentially biased or at fault, so stepped aside and asked his completely impartial No 2 to step in, that’s Sue Gray by the way, the future CoS of the labour Party.

 

[busby1971]

Although, in the real world outside of egoat and possibly arrse, I'm not really actually sensing any outrage. Maybe I need to start reading the daily fail.

And that was my original point of the thread.

 

[Oldstacker]

Some people may not appear to understand the Cabinet Office’s role in running the civil service, they might also not understand how the civil service runs, even if they work within it.

Eh?

 

[4everAD]

Meanwhile the Tories show their true colours again...

Staff at asylum centre ‘ordered to paint over welcoming pictures for children’

Mr Jenrick wanted it to be made clear the asylum centre was a ‘law enforcement environment’ and ‘not a welcome centre’, it is claimed.

www.independent.co.uk

 

[muttywhitedog]

Eh?

I think it was a supposed dig at me for daring to suggest that the Cabinet Office might have a political agenda unless they are dragged kicking and screaming through a courtroom (like with the Whatsapp chat), and of course they will be outraged that a supposed "sweep it under the carpet" investigation by Simon Case ended up going to someone who was prepared to say "no I wont sweep it under your carpet". Knives well and truly out for Sue at that point.

The tories are a busted flush, writhing around like a dying fly with whacky policy proposals that have no chance of either succeeding or becoming law. If they truly had the best interests of the country at heart they'd call a GE now, rather than clinging to life in a manner that puts Vim's Celebrity Death List to shame.

 

[Deltaitem]

The tories are a busted flush, writhing around like a dying fly with whacky policy proposals that have no chance of either succeeding or becoming law. If they truly had the best interests of the country at heart they'd call a GE now, rather than clinging to life in a manner that puts Vim's Celebrity Death List to shame.

Yup, and I'm probably repeating myself, but I think it's going to be '97 all over again. Hopefully. Although this time we can only hope for a gradual national cultural shift to the left and no PFI.
Fingers crossed, and hope springs eternal.

 

[Talk Wrench]

Yup, and I'm probably repeating myself, but I think it's going to be '97 all over again. Hopefully. Although this time we can only hope for a gradual national cultural shift to the left and no PFI.
Fingers crossed, and hope springs eternal.

Again, I'll ask the questions. How are Labour going to govern the country? What are the deal makers that will make a politically weary country vote for them?

 

[Deltaitem]

Well, how does any party govern the country? They win an election. As for deal makers, they're really not needed. Right now, the nation has had enough of the tories and want them out, and that's enough. Come election time, you'll probably see a huge wodge of people voting for whichever local candidate will help them achieve that.
I doubt that your indoctrination will allow you to believe the link, but believe the polls and accept the inevitable, they can't all be wrong.

Change is coming

 

[Talk Wrench]

Well, how does any party govern the country? They win an election. As for deal makers, they're really not needed. Right now, the nation has had enough of the tories and want them out, and that's enough. Come election time, you'll probably see a huge wodge of people voting for whichever local candidate will help them achieve that.
I doubt that your indoctrination will allow you to believe the link, but believe the polls and accept the inevitable, they can't all be wrong.

Change is coming

Why do you fail to answer the questions asked?

 

[Deltaitem]

You should feel quite flattered that I actually did. If you can't understand them, that's not my problem.

 

[Cat Techie]

Have I missed anything? Nah. Ancillary light blue washers and stuck in military land ex techies verses those that actually know better. Crack on. Oh TB. TOSSFORD tossers selling off history.

 

[busby1971]

Kier has been quite clear that is not the oppositions duty to make alternative proposals, but it is its duty to challenge the government.

This is something he has stuck to, however, at some point he will need to produce a manifesto that he is willing to deliver, and this will be his mandate for when, or if, he forms a government.

I would not like to be the one to say that he has flip flopped entirely on his own personal manifestos (and those of his party) , that he refuses to answer challenging questions, or that he has lied, (although he has, just like Boris), but I am sure that once the election process starts he will be open an honest with the electorate so we know what we are voting for.

 

[muttywhitedog]

Again, I'll ask the questions. How are Labour going to govern the country? What are the deal makers that will make a politically weary country vote for them?

Why would he allow the tories to pinch his ideas and give them a chance of screwing us for another 5 years, but come manifesto time, I have no doubt those policies you crave will be out there, laid out, costed and realistic - not some far right appealing Rwanda policy that costs more than it does to accommodate the asylum seeker in the Ritz hotel for 6 months! £169,000 FFS....

Here's a costed policy for you - Use that £169,000 per Asylum seeker to hire Asylum Decision makers on a 2 year contract. Current staffing levels mean that a case is decided per decision maker per week. That will increase it six-fold, and the backlog will be brought down pretty quickly. Once someone's case is heard (and >75% get ILR), they are then expected to fund themselves, work, pay taxes etc instead of living in a hotel room in limbo with no ability to work or contribute to the country they now call home. I would respectfully suggest that policy would resonate with much of the electorate, yet the tories seem to want this group herded and kept together so they can point at them like animals in a zoo and say "dirty migrants, sponging off you taxpayers", and whip up some xenophobia. No doubt this will start in tory Dorset pretty soon when this floating migrant hotel docks.

Rather like 1997, i'm not expecting to wake up and find the country's problems are suddenly fixed, but I am expecting to wake up with the hope in my heart that they will be fixed, The Blair govt largely delivered on what they promised and I expect the Starmer one to do likewise

 

[ShakaKhan89]

Unpopular opinion but, I think a politician NEEDS to tell lies as the majority of the general public can't be trusted with the truth as they aren't thinking about the country but their own self interests... I mean, when I vote, I don't vote for the country's benefit, I vote for what makes things better for me and my family (though it never works out that way!). We are mostly concerned with how we feel, our fears and hopes, too distracted to cooperate with our neighbours.

I wholeheartedly reject the attributes that most politicians possess and I've never met one that has been caught on a dirty lie but I still think, just has the public can't be trusted with classified information from the military, they also can't be trust with the innermost workings of the government either! Both Secrets and omissions of the truth are required to maintain a certain level of civility in my opinion!

Anyway... food for thought I guess!

 

[busby1971]

I think it comes down to who do you trust the most to take the country in the direction you want it to go, whether that’s for your benefit or the wider good (as you see it).

The problem with the major parties is that they have to appeal to as many people as they can, and within their potential supporter base there will be conflicting desires and beliefs, which eventually surface during their time in power and result in a shift of government From one side to another. These can also rip parties apart during times of shadowing, as per the Corbin Labour period and the Hague, Smith and Howard period of Conservatism.

There are some pretty fundament policy issues within Woke Labour, which are simply just not popular with the general population and at some point, pre or post the next election these will have to be revealed, the bribes to Old/New Labour supporters are going to have to be pretty hefty to keep them in power long term.