Ghandi's Flip-Flop
Sergeant
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Surely going through the proceedure of a QOR would highlight where the system fell down. I think the lack of accountablility is one of many peoples major gripe with TG17.
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Higher payband = more professionalism?
- Thread starter 3OCLOCKFINISH
- Start date
Surely going through the proceedure of a QOR would highlight where the system fell down. I think the lack of accountablility is one of many peoples major gripe with TG17.
3OCLOCKFINISH
Corporal
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The reason people get so peeved off with TG17 is because although seen as an 'easy' trade they are the trade most likely to actually cause you problems outside work.
eg.
If I fill in paperwork for courses/allowances etc and it mysteriously goes missing I will suffer as a direct result through money missing in my account.
If as a techie I don't fix a problem because I have been careless, then whatever, of course it is annoying and I will get a bollocking but it doesn't affect somebody on a personal level.
From on here and in the section I very rarely here a good word said about PSF. Perhaps the shinies here should start to listen to this and wonder why and maybe even move to do something about it.
Yup, It was the gozzome chaps at MPA.
I filled in 2 (yes 2 - WHY 2?) forms - the one you get at the 6 weeks to go stage and the one when you clear the unit and put the 'x' in the box on both for transport to be booked, yet when I arrived back there was no MT. MT (civvies BTW) were kind enough to change schedules in order to expedite my pick-up and was taken home. I was 4hrs late home and my wife lost hours (and therefore money) as she had take time off work to be there for me. The next day I went to PSF, sorry HR, to see what had happened and our Chief Clerk (who is a storming good guy before you call me anti-TG17) said it was an administrative phopar. He applologised on behalf of the numpties at MPA, but informed me there was no way to QOR them. I never got an apology from the last pillock in the chain, the clerk that handled my clearance paperwork.
The morale of the story is however, from a Quality Assurance perspective, is that there is no way to identify what went wrong, why and how to tweak the process so it never happens again. On deployment this is especially important as everyone imports their own bad habits then leave just as the output from them hits ground zero and someone suffers. Good Quality Control ensures that this does not happen. TG17 in the deployed environment without robust QA has the potential to cause absolute calamity by the action of just one bad apple. That is why you get such a bad rap, that is why (amongst other/many reasons) lots of goaters do not think your trade justifies the pay increase.
Hope that helps
Ex-Splitter and Proud
Flight Sergeant
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Maybe it was... just possibly?
You ask why is it TG17? Well, maybe TG17 get the blame because others see them as a bunch of retarded, feckless, bone-idle, incompetents with the superior air of those who know they'll never be held to account for their failings...
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... just a thought...
DT_Xtremez_42:Any viewpoint, opinion or comment expressed on this site by me (hereinafter referred to as "the party of the first part") should not be interpreted as the party of the first part's viewpoint, opinion or comment - either personally or professionally, nor should it be taken as the party of the first part's official, demi-official or totally rumour-mongering viewpoint, opinion or comment.
If the party of the first part's viewpoint, opinion or comment expressed on this site is interpreted as the party of the first part's viewpoint, opinion or comment - either personally or professionally, or taken as the party of the first part's official, demi-official or totally rumour-mongering viewpoint, opinion or comment and subsequently expressed by any third party (hereinafter referred to as "the party of the third part"), then that viewpoint, opinion or comment expressed by the party of the third part is solely the viewpoint, opinion or comment of the party of the third part and no responsibility can be inferred or transferred to the party of the first part. In this event, the party of the first part may hold the party of the third part (hereinafter referred to as "the plagiarising cnut") responsible and may hunt down said plagiarising cnut by whichever means the party of the first part considers necessary, suitable and appropriate.
Not quite true. If as a techie I don't fix a problem because I have been careless, then a multi milion pound asset could be lost, the pilot/Nav and or passangers may loose their lives, the ac may crash on the civilian populous or on ops, the troops on the ground may not get the support they need causing issues there. That is why techies do years of training, that is why techies sign their life away daily against equipment, that is why they follow a quality system and that is why they (along with a few non technical trades) deserve the high payband.
What have you done to deserve it today TG17?
I got a bloke home within 18 hrs from OOA 2 hrs before his mum passed away.
Well done, I mean that honestly, I have genuine heartfelt pride in the compassionate system.
However, Don't forget, you are just a link in the chain. You forgot to mention the Aircrew that mobilised at a moments notice along with the ground crew and support staff.
B
Bucc Boy
Guest
Congratulations tommo9999..............what were you flying? Didn't have 4 legs with a phone and a nice cup of tea on it by any chance, did it?
OK for clarity I didn't fly the bloke back myself, or have anything to do with the aircraft prep or recovery, which was done by Yanks and British Airways and I thanked the Yanks verbally. I am fully aware I am "just" a link in the chain, with lots of the co-ordination done by the JCCC (Manned mostly by a bunch of ex TG17 WOs) and the FMCC. I am also just a link in the chain when it comes to a whole range of admin issues, from pay to allowances to casework to Apollo to accounts, trying to ensure my bit of the chain works as well as it can.
This does get my goat (no pun), I was assured by the CEQA team whilst OOA in the back end of 08 that A1 etc were being brought into the QA world very soon and as yet, sweet FA. The sooner, the better IMO.
Pop Star's Wages
LAC
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I can tell you what I haven't done today - I haven't sat in front of an internet forum foaming at the mouth about something I have no control over, can't change and (and here's the kicker) in the grand scheme of things makes no difference to my life.
It's been said before - and it'll no doubt be said a hundred times again - if you feel that undervalued and overworked compared to us 'feckless, useless, uncaring and lazy' shineys go and earn the mega bucks you keep telling us you can earn out on civvy street - or don't.
B
Bucc Boy
Guest
It appears to me, that’s exactly what you have been doing!!
I could be wrong and maybe it's just my suspicious mind, but are you one of our resident shineys too scared to put your own name to this rant?
You seem to be well aware 'it's been said before'. Also you have had time to sort out an Avatar but not fill in any details about yourself (anonymity?).
Welcome to the goat.............again?
Pop Star's Wages
LAC
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I'll take your points in turn:
1 - I tend to look over the Goat either at lunchtime if I don't go to the Gym (please don't bang on about how techies only wish they had the time to go) or of an evening. I admit that now I have jumped into this 'debate' (and I use the word loosely) I cannot help but refresh the latest posts page evry now and again - I am only human afterall!!
DT_Xtremez_30:2 - I am not one of the 'resident shineys'. I did have an account on here a couple of years ago but have not logged on for at least 18 months. I cannot remember my old username let alone remember the password.
3 - I am 'internet' savvy. I know how to upload an avatar to my profile. I also know that I don't want my personal details splashed all over the web. Can I refer you to the latest advice on persec and internet forums/social networking sites?
Anything else?
Anyway to drag this dig at TG17 back on track, I concede there are areas where improvement has to be made but on the flipside I can also see where improvement has been made. I am a devolved clerk - ie I work on a section rather than in a PSF - and have been since JPA became active. I provide 80% of all the admin requirements of my section without them having to drag themselves to PSF, in most instances fixing their problems there and then. I can provide pay, allowances and SJAR/career advice (albeit not as comprehensive as the PSF/Chf Clk can) and am basically a 'one stop shop' for admin for about 120 personnel of all ranks (up to Sqn Ldr). I am not unique, there are many like me doing this now, and hopefully this will continue to improve the service that you expect of us. I am fairly confident that as our FMDL comes up to strength and more recruits pass out of Southwick Park you will see more of us being devolved and the level of service (which is obvioulsy so lacking in your eyes) come up to scratch.
Anyway, I suspect that whatever I say you will pick holes in it and look to continue this dig at us. Crack on I say, it provides me with some light relief - no foaming in sight here old chap!
B
Bucc Boy
Guest
I'll take your points in turn:
1 - I tend to look over the Goat either at lunchtime if I don't go to the Gym (please don't bang on about how techies only wish they had the time to go) or of an evening. I admit that now I have jumped into this 'debate' (and I use the word loosely) I cannot help but refresh the latest posts page evry now and again - I am only human afterall!!
2 - I am not one of the 'resident shineys'. I did have an account on here a couple of years ago but have not logged on for at least 18 months. I cannot remember my old username let alone remember the password.
3 - I am 'internet' savvy. I know how to upload an avatar to my profile. I also know that I don't want my personal details splashed all over the web. Can I refer you to the latest advice on persec and internet forums/social networking sites?
Anything else?
Anyway to drag this dig at TG17 back on track, I concede there are areas where improvement has to be made but on the flipside I can also see where improvement has been made. I am a devolved clerk - ie I work on a section rather than in a PSF - and have been since JPA became active. I provide 80% of all the admin requirements of my section without them having to drag themselves to PSF, in most instances fixing their problems there and then. I can provide pay, allowances and SJAR/career advice (albeit not as comprehensive as the PSF/Chf Clk can) and am basically a 'one stop shop' for admin for about 120 personnel of all ranks (up to Sqn Ldr). I am not unique, there are many like me doing this now, and hopefully this will continue to improve the service that you expect of us. I am fairly confident that as our FMDL comes up to strength and more recruits pass out of Southwick Park you will see more of us being devolved and the level of service (which is obvioulsy so lacking in your eyes) come up to scratch.
Anyway, I suspect that whatever I say you will pick holes in it and look to continue this dig at us. Crack on I say, it provides me with some light relief - no foaming in sight here old chap!
Please, please, please get over yourselves and welcome to the real RAF. It is part of the banter system, nothing more nothing less. Admittedly, you shineys have never been on the receiving end of it to the extent you are these days, but that's because your position has changed. Do you not think that in years gone by (when it was predominantly only the techies on high pay), a sly comment wouldn't have been passed by adminers seeing techies sitting around doing nothing, maybe how they are not worth their money? Well what goes around comes around; get rid of banter and you may as well close the lid on the RAF morale box right now.
I can't think of a single shiney I ever disliked or was intentionally useless. I hope you all realise we're taking the p1ss but appreciate your efforts and the job you do.
Just don't bite so often, we are well within our rights to give you a hard time as you are us.......maybe we've just had more practice in the crewroom at ignoring it.
Pop Star's Wages
LAC
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Final post from me on this as I really don't have anything else to add, but I think you'll find if you read back through this thread there's plenty that I wouldn't have classed as banter towards TG17 - anyhoo I have a thick skin and a fat wallet so who cares right?
And you're right by the way, when I was last on a flying unit (seems a long time ago now), I regularly did moan about how fat lazy techies on their higher payband did buqqer allDT_Xtremez_14:
And you're right by the way, when I was last on a flying unit (seems a long time ago now), I regularly did moan about how fat lazy techies on their higher payband did buqqer all
DT_Xtremez_14:I have done that EXACT same job a few years ago in MPA. It still dosent place the blame with TG17. Did you actually look with your OWN TWO EYES at the flight signal that was sent from MPA to all the stations MT sections? Was your name on there with a YES in the 'needs MT' column of said signal? Didnt see it? Thought not. It could have been MT that f*cked up!
You just don't want to let go do you....
Yes, did see the signal as it was shown to me (with my own two eyes) by the Chf Clk here as he apologised to me. I did not get the signal at MPA (and I don't believe it is common practice to do so). It is not up for discussion, it was an MPA screwup, however that was not the point, I'm not really that bothered if it was PSF or MT that screwed up. The main point I was making was that the QA system is not in place so we don't know that it wasn't a process failure or just a less than effective clerk that caused the problem. BTW MT follows the QA system
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Well said BB. And I would add that at my present unit the HR staff do a bang up job. They are professional and courteous and helpful ... just the attributes that we need.
The question in the topic is weather the 'promoted' trades are worth the extra money. It is also worth noting that the only 'non-technical' trade to cop this level of heat is the TG17 chaps. You would have to ask yourselves why that is.
I have already mentioned about the QA side of the house and have been backed up by another member. I personally think it is no brainer that you join this system. You already operate process based systems and even JPA is more or less a 'quality' system in that it is accountable. The fact is your HR units would gain efficiency, save manpower, save money, save loads of griping, synchronise processes (verifiably) between MOBs and deployed units and be truly auditable. You just have to put up with some hardship and hassle as processes are implemented. Trust me, you will be a better trade for it.
The 'biggies' for me is that:
1. Your equivalents outside are on nothing like the money yours cpls and above earn.
2. There is widespread belief that the process to get you 'upped' was very much massaged to get the right result. We know you have some pretty crap DWR slots, but nothing like as hard as some others, like techies the TG17 guys tend to be in 'safe' zones, unlike say, Regt and MT drivers on convoy. Furthermore they tend to be in much more comfortable surroundings, such as aircon'd office and HQ (or even hotel) environments, unlike Movers, suppliers, Techies...well almost every one else actually. Now, like I said, I know that is not always the case, but I'm pretty certain that the few that are bad would almost certainly took centre stage during the job analysis.
My own opinion, and I hope this post doesn't come as a 'rant' to you is that you should enjoy your 5 years of high pay band, because unless your trade rapidly and obviously changes it's game plan then I will be frankly stunned if you stay where you are.
Lastly, we had a load of civil servants and a couple of officers visit our unit a few months back. During the forum (after everyone stopped ranting about the TG17 'situation') they started talking of a single spine pay scale. IE one band of pay, with lots more increment points, and dependent on your trade etc, you would enter the 'spine' at a different level. I was quite impressed by this idea especially as I now think that the high/low pay scale system has become so out of shape and divisive.