Here's one for the experienced guys!

[Cupcake]

Hi everyone,

Would really appreciate your knowledge and advice here...

I went to AFCO last week with the intention of joining as a WSOp (Crewman). I met all eligibility requirements except one...I have suffered from migraines. To say I am gutted is an understatement. Knowing you cannot do the job you want due to health reasons you no longer suffer from is frustrating to say the least, however I fully understand why they cannot let me through. I was devastated when they told me the bad news, but it has led me to question what I really want.

I thought I was applying for a job that would, quite literally, change my life. I have been from job to job from my teens and have found two common factors in each one; 1) I have always held jobs that required sitting behind a desk, and 2) I always, without fail, got bored in these jobs. So, after considering these two huge factors I decided I needed a job that would be different every day. I then had a look at the RAF.

I did my research and found the job I thought I would enjoy the most, which would therefor lead to me performing my best and would not lead to utter boredom! I then found the lifestyle that came with it was pretty damn good too. But now I'm stuck...I cannot do the job of WSOp and I'm in a quandry. I'm 28. I have GCSEs but no A Levels. I have a family. I'm in a good job with an emergencyservice at the moment, but I know I will get bored very soon. I still want to join the RAF, despite not being able to do the job I want (I won't ever be able to do it - my medical history will not change and it's unlikely the requirements will either). I've been through the website looking at jobs I could do, but I'm now concerned about the financial implications of joining...whichever job I go for, I'd be earning less than I do now, albeit that subsidised accomodation is offered.

I'm looking at the position of Weapons Technician and wondered if any of you guys could shed any light on how soon you can progress in this particular trade...I'm especially interested in bomb disposal...and also how the salary scale works. I understand you start on a specific wage, however on the salary scale there is quite a large range for each rank's salary...how do you manage to work your way up to the higher end of the scale for each particular rank? Is it via payrise every year...or can you earn more dependant on earning more qualifications? Whilst I do not want finances to be the be all and end all of joining, it is a very large and important part of family life.

Any route I choose, I have to be pretty quick as I'm edging nearer and nearer the age restrictions!!

Many thanks in advance...

Cupcake

 

[Weebl]

Armourers are high pay band, so look at the published pay bands and you will be on the high one.

The levels in each pay band are attained every year on the anniversary of your joining, or of your last promotion as long as your annual assesment is good enough (and you have to totally mong it up and be a fvckwit of the highest order to get assesments bad enough to not get an increment)

You will start with the trainee wage, then after your Mechs course you will go on to level one, incrementing every year.

Some levels require you to pass courses to progress, however all these are within your reach if you can be arsed. When promoted you will move up to the new pay range, on the pay level which gives you a minimum of 2% extra, for example if you were level 9 range one (SAC Tech), you would go to level 3 range 2 (Cpl)

You will also have a grand total of 2 chances to leap a pay level in your career by using a qualification, IE you will be level 2 SAC and you use an AIP and immediately become level 3

As an Armourer you will also be an Aircraft Technician and may end up linieing on a Sqn. I am not an Armourer but I think BD is a volunteer thing and you need to be fairly experienced before applying?

HTH

 

[gemarriott]

BD is indeed a specialism but there is a lot of info about. Try visiting www.rafarmourers.co.uk and ask there about the trade. There are quite a few BD guys over there.

 

[Shugster]

You have to weigh up Job satisfaction against income.

You earn a good wage now, but you say you get bored after a few years. (I'm the same BTW. I get bored with routine)

You will get variation with a Forces job but you'll be in a post for around 3 years. If it's a good job then great... If it's boring you've got three years of it.

It also takes years to get promoted to any real level and there is a fair bit of luck involved as well.

You also have to consider that you will probably be away from home alot.

If you have a family, a good wage and you get to see your kids alot, then maybe the forces lifestyle is not for you.

Others will have a different view. This is just my humble opinion.
DT_Xtremez_26:

 

[Cupcake]

Thanks guys for your replies - the information is really useful and does give me food for thought.

I'm on an ok wage at the moment - its certainly higher than the training wage, but I can cope with that if I know how long I would be likely to be on a lower wage for. My current salary is by no means fantastic, but as many mature applicants probably go through themselves, you usually already have financial commitments - you're not coming straight out of school.

My present job is one I am going to get bored with in months...not years. It happens every time I take on an admin based job so I know I will get bored if I'm not given enough to do, enough to engage my mind and enough to keep me occupied. At the moment I answer emergency 999 calls for an ambulaqnce service, and whilst the calls are varied, generally I am sat at a desk for 12 hours per shift....yawn...I totally, 100% expect the RAF to be different!

I do see a lot of my children - I'm with them every day, buit another reason I am considering the RAF is to give them a better way of life than I can give them now...think of the life experience they will have! The friends! Schooling will go unaffected...both my children and my partner may not get to see me as much as they'd like if I were to go away on tour, but that comes with the job. My partner is an airline pilot so we're used to odd hours/unsociable shifts.

The general concensus that I get is that most people who are in the RAF love their jobs, love the lifestyle...I want some of that too but I have to weigh up the effects it has on other areas and money, is unfortunatly, one of them,

Thanks again guys

 

[lisab]

Have you thought about training to do a non-admin job in civvie street? Joining the forces is a massive commitment and its not as easy to walk away from if you get bored!

 

[FootTapper]

Very good point lisa makes - it is a serious commitment - and perhaps a blue light job will give you the variety you need without the level of commitment (and the initial pay cut)


However, if you do decide to join there's a few things to weigh up about the Armourer job.

Firstly it can be quite limiting in civvie careers after - there's not much call for it in civvie life. However the more general technical experience and qualifications are worthwhile.

Life on BD can be great or rubbish - as a junior rank you can end up spending plenty of time digging holes in mud doing area clearance of MOD land. However you can also be a man 2 on IED or CMD (terrorist or conventional) bomb disposal duties, responding to blue light calls and turning up to save the day before returning home for tea and medals.

I spent about 18 months on BD - finally decided to leave when I found myself up to my knees in mud searching for fired brass for 8 hours a day... But then shortly after leaving I got picked for a tour of Iraq - late 2003 doing Bomb Disposal.


In slightly over 11 years in the RAF the BD tour of Iraq was without doubt my most enjoyable and most rewarding time.

Personally though it's something I'd never do if I had a wife and kids, we had a few slightly "exciting" moments that could make great stories to tell the grandkids in years to come, but I wouldn't have wanted to have had the responsibility at the time.

 

[Cupcake]

Very good point re: getting a non admin based civvy job, one I have considered a great deal and, if I am 100%honest, am still considering but only because I want to make certain that I am making the right decision. I have arranged another meeting with AFCO to ask them plenty of questions and to get their advice too, but I can't remember ever feeling so excited about something in my life! It's not just the job, it's the whole package that appeals. I have wanted to join the RAF since I was 16 - I wanted to be a Pilot but was told by my careers advisor at the time that being a girl, I would never be allowed to do it...she basically told me it would be useless to apply because I wouldn't get anywhere. Being a naive 16 year old I believed her and didn't try...I now know things are different so want to make up for lost time finding a career I could already have been in.

If this turns out to be the wrong decision then I believe the questions I'm going to be asking and the selection process will highlight it. I won't make any decisions lightly as I have my children to think about and its a big enough upheavel as it is without being certain about it.

Maybe BD isn't the right path to go down because of my children (I don't even know if I can being that I'm a girl!) but again, it's something I can think about with a lot of advice and talks with my family. I'd have loved to do SAR but again, cannot do it because of my migraine history...I'd never get the opportunity to do anything like it as a civvy because those jobs are very few and far between. Plus, I cannot afford to obtain a helicopter pilot licence just to be able to get on one!

Lisa, do you mind me asking what job you do? How do you find life in the RAF? I've spoken to men who are employed by the RAF and have spoken to no women as yet...it would be good to get your perspective on things.

All your advice is so helpful...you're all bringing up things I may not have thought about, so although some of it may not be what I had wanted to hear (!), please keep it coming because it is really valuable in knowing what to do.

 

[Downsizer]

Just a couple of points...

EOD is love or hate, no inbetween. Personally I wouldn't touch it with a barge pole.

Secondly Wep Techs are low pay band until they get q-ops when they then go onto the high pay band.

 

[Cupcake]

Just a couple of points...

EOD is love or hate, no inbetween. Personally I wouldn't touch it with a barge pole.

Secondly Wep Techs are low pay band until they get q-ops when they then go onto the high pay band.

What's EOD? And q-ops?

 

[gemarriott]

What's EOD? And q-ops?

Explosive, Ordnance,Disposal

 

[Downsizer]

EOD is Explosive Ordanance Disposal, another term for BD.

Q-Ops is the required standard that an SAC must reach after training. Essentially a number of hoops to jump through to become fully qualified.

 

[vim_fuego]

I noticed your use of the word 'partner'. Not knowing your living arrangements I expect that you own or perhaps rent your own house...If you join the RAF you can expect to serve, as a Weapons bod, anywhere from RAF Kinloss way ooop North to Benson down South (don't know which is the most Southerly of our bases so I guessed!)...Your location states South West UK so unless you get Lyneham or Brize you are going to have to think about your personal living situation as not being married you won't get a quarter...So you'll have to consider where we can send you and consider 'bean stealing' where you live in the block during the week or your shifts then driving home to see the other half and kids or taking the plunge and getting married...Unless your partner is a girl then a civil ceremony secures you a cheap gaff!

Could you face being up at Kinloss in the bay working 8-5,5 days a week then flying down (driving not really an option) for 30 odd hours with the family before making the return journey?

Another angle to think about...

Of course if you meant partner in the married tense then forget my last!

 

[Cupcake]

I noticed your use of the word 'partner'. Not knowing your living arrangements I expect that you own or perhaps rent your own house...If you join the RAF you can expect to serve, as a Weapons bod, anywhere from RAF Kinloss way ooop North to Benson down South (don't know which is the most Southerly of our bases so I guessed!)...Your location states South West UK so unless you get Lyneham or Brize you are going to have to think about your personal living situation as not being married you won't get a quarter...So you'll have to consider where we can send you and consider 'bean stealing' where you live in the block during the week or your shifts then driving home to see the other half and kids or taking the plunge and getting married...Unless your partner is a girl then a civil ceremony secures you a cheap gaff!

Could you face being up at Kinloss in the bay working 8-5,5 days a week then flying down (driving not really an option) for 30 odd hours with the family before making the return journey?

Another angle to think about...

Of course if you meant partner in the married tense then forget my last!

Haha! No, my partner is not a girl! He's a he and he is my boyfriend. We have considered the option and I was told at the AFCo meeting I had previously that because I have children, I'd be given quarters. I was also given the impression by a RAF employee at a careers event that it didn't matter that we weren't married because we already have children together. Whether this is actually the case or not I don't know, but if being married meant the difference between accomodation or not, then we'd take the plunge. It's on the cards anyway (well, so HE says!!), it's just down to lack of finances at the moment.

My boyfriend is an airline pilot so we are used to moving bases around the country, and Scotland was actually my favourite place to be. It would all rest on where he could relocate to with his present job although he is also looking to change jobs once the economy has settled a bit and once he has accrued more flying hours. Then it'll be long haul flights for him, boarding school for our children (he went to boarding school as a child and loved it). We still have a huge amount to discuss as our children are still very young (5yo boy and 1yo girl), but from what I have read about the jobs, learnt about them, watched vids about the initial training, I cannot think of anything I'd like to do more at this point in time.

I think it's one of those age old things - where there's a will, there is a way. It's not just about me wanting the job though, it's also whether my boyfriend is wanting me to do this too and so far, he hasn't said one negative thing to try to persuade me any different. We've come up against specific issues, then discussed and thought of solutions (i.e. childcare whilst I'm training - if I'm lucky enough to get through that is!).

It's not a quick fix to a boredom problem, it's our lives we are talking about, but it's also my life. I want a career that provides not only me with a lifestyle I would never usually get the chance to know in civvy street, but it also provides my family with the same lifestyle and opportunity. I want a job where I actually use my brain, not have to read a script from a screen on how to give CPR!

 

[lisab]

Lisa, do you mind me asking what job you do? How do you find life in the RAF? I've spoken to men who are employed by the RAF and have spoken to no women as yet...it would be good to get your perspective on things.

All your advice is so helpful...you're all bringing up things I may not have thought about, so although some of it may not be what I had wanted to hear (!), please keep it coming because it is really valuable in knowing what to do.

Cupcake, I left the Air Force a few years ago, but during my time in I loved it, yes there were tough times but I can honestly say they were the best years of my life to date! Life in the RAF as a female is really no different to civvie street apart from you need to have a thicker skin! If you want to chat about it further or ask some more questions feel free to pm me.

 

[vim_fuego]

I was told at the AFCo meeting I had previously that because I have children, I'd be given quarters.

Not unless you are the sole legal guardian (cat 2 I believe it's called...feel free to wade in scribblys) of your children and if that is the case then your partner will only be abled to stay in the house for a set number of days...There is a somewhat archaic attitude to this sort of thing in the forces...IMO without a marraige certificate you'll only get a room in the block...

 

[Downsizer]

Vim is correct, you must be sole gaurdian to be entitled to a married quarter.

 

[laboratoryqueen]

Vim is correct, you must be sole gaurdian to be entitled to a married quarter.

Sorry for a little highjack here of the thread but if someone were sole guardian of their child but the child was in permanent residence at boarding school, would you still be entitled to married quarters? ie, for when the children come home on holidays etc.

 

[tommo9999]

Yes, you would.

 

[millie]

IMHO parenting and the forces really don't bode well together. Its really hard to leave them, whether you are a mother or a father, whether it's a few days or a few months. Its hard to obtain childcare at very short notice. It costs a fortune on last minute childcare. I would think long and hard about joining with children, where you partner is not allowed to live with you (as you are not married) and the fact he is also away. 70% of my income goes on childcare. The RAF still dont grasp family needs when it comes to service commitments, the service comes first, and in all honesty rightly so. The problem is I still love it and it's very hard to leave, but if I did all again, joining with children, NO WAY!