Freeeeedom! The Scottish Independence Thread

[vim_fuego]

This has been rumbling on since forever and not quelled by a clear result in Indyref 1. What we seem to have is a country that votes against it but is still 'ruled' by Nationalists who, obviously, want independence.

Why is this?
What will happen to the ship building contracts for T26/31 and soon 32?
What about the nuclear deterrent? The Nats don't want it so where does it go?
Does wee nippy have sufficient plans to ensure the economy doesn't bomb once they leave the UK? What about their NHS?
What about the Northern airbases? Lossie has had tens of millions of new investment in its facilities and infrastructure? Should they remain or move South of the border?

What the feck does Scotland potentially leaving the UK mean to the Scots? What does it mean to the remaining union?

 

[fourteen2two]

The SNP sums just don't add up, she is living in cloud cuckoo land.
Scotland gets huge amounts from Westminster now.
What about their share of the national debt if they leave?
Jobs will go at Faslane when it is moved, other companies will follow suit.
There is no guarantee the EU will let them in, I believe Spain has said they would veto it.
If they do go, good riddance!

 

[busby1971]

It's a bit like the Brexit decision it's one from the heart for a lot of people, the SNP don't seem to be able to answer some of the big issue questions (currency, funding, trade agreements and boarders) never mind the little ones. From last weeks QT the attitude of the greens and the Nats to tax tax tax would see a brain drain of those who can and international companies relocate pretty sharpish. If you look at what Ireland did to create the Irish Tiger economy it was all about low tax to encourage EU bases to relocate there, just like Belgium and Luxembourg do.

If the Scots want to diverge from the Rest of UK then that's their decision and just as we are 'suffering' from Brexit they will have to live with the consequences.

Personally, from a head point of view the best time to achieve independence has been and gone, the last referendum was pre-brexit and pre-peak oil and gas revenue.

 

[SAXAVORDIAN]

I say all the best and cheerio is what I will say to Scotland. If they feel unfairly robbed by the Brexit vote, then there's nothing stopping them going for Republic route if they have the bottle for it. I expect the scots to have a bit more backbone, like their Irish cousins who I may add jumped at the chance in joining EU with both hands. As the Scots Nats and supporters have no interest with Nuclear Subs then I'm sure Wales or a similar base in England would be happy for the extra work. I suspect they want to fashion themselves akin to the Scandinavian i.e. Norway with similar population, employment field and backdoor to EU. Better to know Scotland divorced from the rest of UK than having a constant nagging wife bleating on and on and on. So Cheerio.

 

[SAXAVORDIAN]

No problem with Scotland wanting independence at all. They were dragged out of the EU against their wishes. The leave campaigns war cry was being about governed by unelected bureaucrats wasn't it?, well isn't that exactly what's happening in Scotland with the UK government?
I'm all for Scottish Independence from the tyranny of the British government, so they can control their own borders, their own money and rejoin the EU. When it becomes independent - I'll be applying for my Scottish passport.

Surely applying for an EU than Scottish passport. Is that not the purpose in Joining the EU, ONE NATION UNDER ONE FLAG. If you want Euro's EU Directives EU MEP's One Army Air and Navy under one flag then Scots have to accept those premise. So if as and many fellow English visitors, someday want pop over the border to Scotland with our British passports awaiting a stamp. Will see proudly a very large EU flag next to a small Scottish one or none at all, see road signs in KM and Metres. Border patrolling EU guards at Carlisle and Berwick upon Tweed bridge. Exchange pound sterling for Euros and maybe speak the the one language assigned for EU countries.

 

[Fu Fu Valve]

What makes me laugh is they keep banging on about being dragged out of the EU against their will but if the last Referendum vote was for yes..... they'd have been dragged out of the EU by choice and despite all the drivel they spouted they'd have to apply to join and meet all the EU requirements including using the Euro. If it happened now as the rest of the UK are out of the EU there would under EU rules have to be a Hard Border between England & Scotland, as much as Nippy can say we don't really want to have that it would be out of her hands.
The Shetlands have already said again as they did last time if the country votes for independence they'll vote to break away and become a Crown Dependency like Jersey, Isle of Man, etc.

Going off the last time we went through this....

What will happen to the ship building contracts for T26/31 and soon 32? - Ship building on UK Warships cannot be carried out on a country not part of the UK, so BAE or whoever would have to re-open a yard down south capable of building / completing the ships (i believe they are modular, built around the UK and final assembly is done

What about the nuclear deterrent? The Nats don't want it so where does it go? - That will head south along with all the Nuclear Subs - I think they were looking at Milford Haven last time as a possibility. Though the SNP have said they would use Faslane as the Scottish Navy's HQ and join NATO a a Non-Nuclear member.

Does wee nippy have sufficient plans to ensure the economy doesn't bomb once they leave the UK? What about their NHS? - She'll just TAX us more, they haven't done a financial plan yet they'll get to that before the Neverendum. If it's anything like the last one it'll be a joke - The oil & gas money was a bonus that would keep Scotland going paying for the NHS, Roads, defence, etc while at the same time it would have been stashed away in a Norway style 'Sovereign Wealth Fund' to protect the country's future.

What about the Northern airbases? Lossie has had tens of millions of new investment in its facilities and infrastructure? Should they remain or move South of the border? - Under the previous plan Leuchars would have been home to the Scottish Airforce which like the Navy and Army would have been made up of elements handed over by the UK as their 'share' of the Military assets based on what exactly i can't remember. As for Lossiemouth and the amount it's has spent on it recently the options would be pull out and move everything south (and that could be the new Scottish AF HQ) or make it like Cyprus and have an Sovereign Base Area.

 

[Downsizer]

Negotiating leaving the EU was a mess. Anybody who thinks seperating England and Scotland is living on another planet.

 

[Defenestration]

No problem with Scotland wanting independence at all. They were dragged out of the EU against their wishes. The leave campaigns war cry was being about governed by unelected bureaucrats wasn't it?, well isn't that exactly what's happening in Scotland with the UK government?
I'm all for Scottish Independence from the tyranny of the British government, so they can control their own borders, their own money and rejoin the EU. When it becomes independent - I'll be applying for my Scottish passport.

No, they have elected officials.

 

[Tin basher]

The leave campaigns war cry was being about governed by unelected bureaucrats wasn't it?

That is the one big head scratcher that seemingly gets her SNP, saltire on the front, knickers in knot, it's the we don't want to be "governed by unelected bureacrats" tag line. Plainly that's not the case, the SNP position means they really don't want to be governed by a remote administrative centre if its called London but fervently do want to to be governed by a remote administrative centre if its called Brussels.

 

[busby1971]

If the Scotland wants to be part of the EU, then it should be allowed to make that choice to be part of it and if that means independence.. well good on them.

I think the point is that the SNP talk about leading their own destiny, however, in order to scoop up the Pro EU vote they promise to rejoin another union as soon as they become free.

Perhaps the average Nat voter doesn’t understand the impact of joining the EU as a new entrant, it certainly wouldn’t be on the terms they had pre-brexit.

 

[Tin basher]

If the Scotland wants to be part of the EU, then it should be allowed to make that choice

Currently it's Britain's choice to be, or not be, part of the EU and 5 years ago (June 2016) Britain made it's choice. So Scotland can only be part of the EU when and if they allow it to re-join and when it's no longer part of the UK. They had the "generational" (Sept 2014) referendum which said the majority of Scots want to stay part of the UK. I have no personal objection to Scotland becoming independent as I feel the number of Tax £'s sent south of the border is far less than the number of Tax £'s that goes North. Britain could perhaps cut taxes for the remaining citizens if Scotland did leave the UK but I don't see it as good move for Scotland.

 

[busby1971]

Currently it's Britain's choice to be, or not be, part of the EU and 5 years ago (June 2016) Britain made it's choice. So Scotland can only be part of the EU when and if they allow it to re-join and when it's no longer part of the UK. They had the "generational" (Sept 2014) referendum which said the majority of Scots want to stay part of the UK. I have no personal objection to Scotland becoming independent as I feel the number of Tax £'s sent south of the border is far less than the number of Tax £'s that goes North. Britain could perhaps cut taxes for the remaining citizens if Scotland did leave the UK but I don't see it as good move for Scotland.

I think the money we'd save with the cost per head in Scotland being higher, would be offset by the need to pick up costs that wouldn't be spread so widely, Scotlands armed forces would probably look more European than top tier NATO, there'll also be other currently shared costs that would become more concentrated post separation.

GDP per head in the Rest of Uk would probably be higher, however, there'd be fewer people to pay for the fixed costs that would continue to be due, or that would take some time to work out of the system.

Breaking up the Union would be massively more complicated than leaving the EU, very few of the issues will be understood easily by the vast majority of the electorate, whatever their persuasion.

 

[busby1971]

Project fear doesn’t work on hearts only minds.

 

[StickyFingers]

Wasn't leaving the EU the worst thing ever?

So Scotland leaving the Union should be the worst thing ever?

Hard border. Shame, Lossie was a mega piss up.

 

[dctyke]

Many big issues would have to be sorted. However what about the myriad of lesser issues. I’ll pick one issue, motoring. Car licence, numberplates, and car taxation. Just to get that up and running in Scotland won’t be easy, knowing the SNP they’ll want to switch to left hand drive!

 

[Past Engineering]

A couple of things that have been consistent from when leave won the vote to exit the EU:

- English leave voters are nationalistic, xenophobic, and stupid, does that not make the Scottish ‘leave the UK union’ voter tarred with the same attributes, but somehow it is OK for them to have that outlook, the irony of that seems to be lost along the line somehwere.

- Only large parts of England and Wales voted to leave, so all other areas that the majority voted to remain should have been able to stay in the EU, as if the referendum vote was a separate one for each part of the UK rather than the whole, which is obviously a ridiculous argument.

IMHO it will be harder to break up the UK union than it was/will be to break away from the EU union, as the UK has been to together a lot longer than we have been members of what has morphed into something we did not join in the first place.

 

[muttywhitedog]

I'm more than happy to see the Scots have a referendum on independence as its very clear that the promises made in 2014 by Cameron have proved to be utter lies.

If they vote for independence, then they go, but they go with a Barnett Formula proportion of the UK national debt, a Barnett formula proportion of Govt pension commitments and they get their own currency. If they join the EU, then it becomes their responsibility to fund and construct a border. If they still want independence when they realise the true cost of it, then good luck to them.

The other option is to give England & Wales a vote on independence from Scotland - wouldnt it be fun if 80% voted to jettison the Scots once it is clearly laid down how many billions is spent on the Barnett Formula funding.

 

[muttywhitedog]

Wasn't leaving the EU the worst thing ever?

So Scotland leaving the Union should be the worst thing ever?

Hard border. Shame, Lossie was a mega piss up.

My MIL voted to remain in 2014 and to leave in 2016. She has yet to explain to me the rationale for her votes....

 

[GD on Wheels]

Let them have left hand drive cars, Two problems. The cost of converting all the road signs to face the correct way plus road markings. Then they will have to fork out for vehicles with the steering wheel on the wrong side.

 

[Tin basher]

knowing the SNP they’ll want to switch to left hand drive!

It will be carefully staged transition cars and motorbikes on Monday, lorries and buses on Tuesday, cyclists whenever