Fitness Test Failure Procedure?

[yamahagp1300r]

Hello all.This topic has probably been kicked to death and as my computer has trouble letting me use the 'Search' feature on this forum, can anyone out there please offer me some guidance ref the Thread Title?One of my work colleagues is knocking on the door of another FT failure, so brief history;1) Failed twice then passed. 2) Failed once then passed. 3) Passed. However, he/she honestly believes he/she will not pass the next test.What's the official party line and where can I find that written?Thanks in advance.

 

[Craig855s]

If he/she is currently fit, then the next test failure will put him/her into the cycle of 3 strikes and out again, to help pass the next test some hardcore gym work is in order between now and then

 

[muttywhitedog]

A subject close to my heart! From my P1 Colleague:

1st failure: Written warning in which the SP has 12 weeks to meet the standard detailed in the written warning (not necessarily the pass mark). The 12 weeks starts from the date of the Written Warning, not the date of the initial failure.

2nd Failure: Formal Warning in which the SP has another 12 weeks to get themselves to the standard detailed in the FW. Again, the 12 week period doesnt start until the date of the FW.

3rd Failure: Papers prepared for the CO to decide whether or not to discharge the SP. This has to be watertight, so it is not an overnight process and will be checked and double checked - you are looking at 3 months or so from 3rd failure to the SP being told he is out.

At any time in this process, if the SP passes the test, then the whole process stops.

 

[Craig855s]

A subject close to my heart! From my P1 Colleague:

1st failure: Written warning in which the SP has 12 weeks to meet the standard detailed in the written warning (not necessarily the pass mark). The 12 weeks starts from the date of the Written Warning, not the date of the initial failure.

2nd Failure: Formal Warning in which the SP has another 12 weeks to get themselves to the standard detailed in the FW. Again, the 12 week period doesnt start until the date of the FW.

3rd Failure: Papers prepared for the CO to decide whether or not to discharge the SP. This has to be watertight, so it is not an overnight process and will be checked and double checked - you are looking at 3 months or so from 3rd failure to the SP being told he is out.

At any time in this process, if the SP passes the test, then the whole process stops.

which document is this written in?

Is the written warning the "MAA"

 

[Climebear]

The policy document you seek is AP3392 Vol 5 Leaflet 136 - Administrative Action To Be Taken Against Individuals With An Inappropriate Attitude To Personal Physical Fitness. Available on RAF Intranet in RAF Publications/Personnel.

 

[muttywhitedog]

Yes, the written warning is MAA. The timescales come from our unit P1 policy handbook. wrt discharges, it says:

"In extreme circumstances the period of time from your initial failure of the FT to consideration for discharge could be as little as 24 weeks. In cases where personal objectives have been met at every assessment point, the maximum period before Administrative Discharge should be considered is 48 weeks"

 

[CC]

A little off topic but related to AFT. Just before Xmas I had a lad come to see me as he believed he'd been passed by for promotion, when I checked it appeared he had in deed been missed off from the PSL. He then told me that he'd received a FW for AFT failure but thought it wouldn't matter as he received it after the board had sat. After I'd explained that he'd be removed from the PSL and the next one, he said, oh well, I'm out next year, stood up said thanks and walked out. I couldn't believe his attitude to the AFT; a little more effort and he'd have been promoted, signed on, etc, instead he's now looking at civvy street.

 

[Harry B'Stard]

A little off topic but related to AFT. Just before Xmas I had a lad come to see me as he believed he'd been passed by for promotion, when I checked it appeared he had in deed been missed off from the PSL. He then told me that he'd received a FW for AFT failure but thought it wouldn't matter as he received it after the board had sat. After I'd explained that he'd be removed from the PSL and the next one, he said, oh well, I'm out next year, stood up said thanks and walked out. I couldn't believe his attitude to the AFT; a little more effort and he'd have been promoted, signed on, etc, instead he's now looking at civvy street.

That's interesting...

I received an MAA a couple of years ago when the new Fitness Test Failure strategy was introduced (obviously went on to pass within a matter of a few weeks). I was told by my adjutant that as long as I passed my fitness test, it would not affect my promotion as it wouldn't be commented upon in my SJAR. I asked him if it would stay on record and he said 'No... as long as you pass'.

Was he incorrect in his information?

HTB

 

[NotAnIDOYet]

IIRC the MAA stays on your P1 file until you are posted to another unit. Not sure if it is disclosed to ACOS Manning to stop promotion etc

 

[CC]

A MAA shouldn't stop you getting promoted and unless commented on your SJAR, the Pre Boarders/Prom board wouldn't know. However a Formal Warning is a career stopper, at least for a couple of years.

The thing is, even once selected and released from the Prom Board, once the prom signal is received, there's still a P1 check to be carried out.

 

[Harry B'Stard]

A MAA shouldn't stop you getting promoted and unless commented on your SJAR, the Pre Boarders/Prom board wouldn't know. However a Formal Warning is a career stopper, at least for a couple of years.

The thing is, even once selected and released from the Prom Board, once the prom signal is received, there's still a P1 check to be carried out.

Thanks for that CC,

I didn't get an FW, just MAA.

So it must be another reason why I'm still a B cat then! DT_Xtremez_30:

HTB

 

[Stakz]

Hello all.This topic has probably been kicked to death and as my computer has trouble letting me use the 'Search' feature on this forum, can anyone out there please offer me some guidance ref the Thread Title?One of my work colleagues is knocking on the door of another FT failure, so brief history;1) Failed twice then passed. 2) Failed once then passed. 3) Passed. However, he/she honestly believes he/she will not pass the next test.What's the official party line and where can I find that written?Thanks in advance.

Looking at this chain of events leads me to think that the person is almost talking themselves into a failure. Maybe some positive motivational work to get their mind into the frame of passing will get them to push out those required extra shuttles.
I used to have the same issues!

 

[Life-Is-Good]

That's interesting...

I received an MAA a couple of years ago when the new Fitness Test Failure strategy was introduced (obviously went on to pass within a matter of a few weeks). I was told by my adjutant that as long as I passed my fitness test, it would not affect my promotion as it wouldn't be commented upon in my SJAR. I asked him if it would stay on record and he said 'No... as long as you pass'.

Was he incorrect in his information?

HTB

One of my personnel has just been through Fail->MAA. I read the docs to make sure MAA was the correct route and that the t's were crossed and the i's dotted. At no time did I read that this (hopefully one-off) action would affect him/her. They've since passed their test and I have no intention of mentioning it in their SJAR

 

[Max]

A little off topic but related to AFT. Just before Xmas I had a lad come to see me as he believed he'd been passed by for promotion, when I checked it appeared he had in deed been missed off from the PSL. He then told me that he'd received a FW for AFT failure but thought it wouldn't matter as he received it after the board had sat. After I'd explained that he'd be removed from the PSL and the next one, he said, oh well, I'm out next year, stood up said thanks and walked out. I couldn't believe his attitude to the AFT; a little more effort and he'd have been promoted, signed on, etc, instead he's now looking at civvy street.

No what it shows is how most people now view the RAF, it's just a job and there are options. Certainly without as many pointless hoops.

 

[bubblebutt]

No what it shows is how most people now view the RAF, it's just a job and there are options. Certainly without as many pointless hoops.

Looking into JSP 833 about MAA & all the literature for fitness failures out there a Formal Interview does not affect promotion in anyway as it's an Administrative Action to show someone where they need to improve, and in no uncertain terms what would happen if they didn't. That's what you get on initial failure from P1. If you pass the test within the first 12 week remedial period then you've met the improvement and come up to the standards expected. If you fail after that initial 12 week remedial you then get the FW. A Formal Warning does affect promotion. In the next promotion cycle following the FW the candidate will be presented to the PSB as a 'C' candidate.

On SJAR's you comment on the individuals attitude towards fitness, not the passing of it. According to the RAF Fitness Strategy Line Management have a responsibility to ensure all staff have access to fitness facilities, however it's still the individuals responsibility to pass the test.

I was told by my desk that this was the case when I enquired about it.

Hope this helps.

 

[Downsizer]

Anyone else agree that it is wrong that line managers should dish out this MAA? Surely it should be the job of the PTIs....

I don't MAA the people the pitch up scruffily dressed for CCS, the rocks do....same rules should apply.

 

[Realist78]

Anyone else agree that it is wrong that line managers should dish out this MAA? Surely it should be the job of the PTIs....

I don't MAA the people the pitch up scruffily dressed for CCS, the rocks do....same rules should apply.

I'll bet that if the PTIs had to do all the paperwork, the pass rate would rise substantially!DT_Xtremez_14:

 

[magic]

Can't help think that the MOD are going to be paying out compensation in the future for anyone dismissed for not passing the AFT. A good lawyer will ask for details on all personnel who have not passed and in many cases (mainly officers) not even attempted it. Why has SAC Bloggs been discharged and not the rest etc?
Yet again we are targeting the easy target, Junior Ranks, yet the people who should be setting the example don't even bother to do it.

My opinion is, so what if you can't run up and down the gym, if you do a decent days work and deploy that's good enough. It's these people who do not deploy are what is causing the problems. I know a lot of people who cannot pass the AFT but deploy so they are an asset, those who do not deploy are of no use in todays RAF.

Before anyone queries my AFT, I pass evey year with ease, does it make me a better trades person? No.

 

[Rugby-Jock-Lad]

And then there's the Equality and Diversity issue as far as gender is concerned......

But we've done that to death!!

I wonder why??!!

 

[CC]

I know of a pilot who failed his AFT, retook it and failed again. Not sure if he was MAAd but I know for certain that no formal action was taken as he was due out within a year and the Sqn OC didn't want him to lose his pension. Now this is a true story and it makes my ****in blood boil. Had this been SAC or Cpl Bloggs, they'd have thrown the book at him.

I am still totally surprised that no one has ever taken the RAF/MoD to court over this issue; it's clear that some people (officers) are treated differently!!!!!