Does the RAF rank structure work?

[FOMz]

f you hack it you are going to do well at an early age...if you don't you get thrown back into the murk of the company to be laughed and pointed at and your tea will doubtless taste of 'hint of cheese' for years to come.

Why not have something similar for Airman?

Their is.. normally called NCA trainees

 

[Oldstacker]

A lad I joined with also reached AVM, he took his commission after 6 years in the ranks.

Hmm, we're a similar age, wonder if we're thinking of the same case? 11/12 Flights Mar '76?

 

[vim_fuego]

Their is.. normally called NCA trainees

*There

I was describing high potential trainees not irresistible sex Gods.

 

[FOMz]

*There

I was describing high potential trainees not irresistible sex Gods.

I do hope you are not including yourself in that last statement...

 

[muttywhitedog]

There are too many ranks for the size of the forces. If you think about the amount of rank ranged jobs there are, then there is plenty of scope for removal of ranks.

WO1/2 can be combined. Plt Off, Fg Off & Flt Lt (and Army/RN equivalent) can be combined. AVM and AM could be combined. Sgt/Chf Tech could be combined. LAC/SAC could be combined. I'm sure there will be more high ranking appointments within the RN and Army that can be combined too.

Sure, there will be a few mutterings of discontent from those directly underneath the ranks that would be scrapped, but a flatter rank structure would allow people to get experience at that level before moving up a rung, and stop the practice of promoting people too early because of a shortfall.

I also think there is some weight to the suggestion that on each promotion, you get a new fixed term contract (about 7 years?), which will not be renewed unless you are promoted again. It would stop a lot of dead wood who hang around for 15+ years in the same rank creating a bottleneck.

 

[techie_tubby]

I also think there is some weight to the suggestion that on each promotion, you get a new fixed term contract (about 7 years?), which will not be renewed unless you are promoted again. It would stop a lot of dead wood who hang around for 15+ years in the same rank creating a bottleneck.

This would need to by looked at on a trade by trade basis. Musicians, air cartographers, photogs all very small trades and could see a 15 year Cpl through no fault of their own.


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[briggfairy]

This would need to by looked at on a trade by trade basis. Musicians, air cartographers, photogs all very small trades and could see a 15 year Cpl through no fault of their own.


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I'm not entirely sure I agree with that, if every trade had a time limit for each rank then the next rank up would open up more often. There could also be a case for looking at those trades and bringing them under the umbrella of other trades at higher ranks, I'm pretty sure that when you get to FS / WO level in any trade your actual trade knowledge isn't as important as your management ability.

 

[justintime129]

Seems to work for our conmenwealth cousins

 

[Spearmint]

I'm not entirely sure I agree with that, if every trade had a time limit for each rank then the next rank up would open up more often. There could also be a case for looking at those trades and bringing them under the umbrella of other trades at higher ranks, I'm pretty sure that when you get to FS / WO level in any trade your actual trade knowledge isn't as important as your management ability.

So this would give rise to the possible situation of an Admin FS/WO making Engineering decisions (ie holding Reds & Greens) on a busy flying Sqn whilst the new JEngO works towards earning them........that sounds like fun. DT_Xtremez_16:

 

[busby1971]

So this would give rise to the possible situation of an Admin FS/WO making Engineering decisions (ie holding Reds & Greens) on a busy flying Sqn whilst the new JEngO works towards earning them........that sounds like fun. DT_Xtremez_16:

No it wouldn’t as the Admin Guy wouldn’t be qualified to do such a thing, silly argument.

However, a SNCO could be the rank where providing such authorisations end, no need for a WO rank if a SNCO could step straight to Flt Lt in order to lead a workforce rather than be a specialist.


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[Dan_Brown]

I'm not entirely sure I agree with that, if every trade had a time limit for each rank then the next rank up would open up more often. There could also be a case for looking at those trades and bringing them under the umbrella of other trades at higher ranks, I'm pretty sure that when you get to FS / WO level in any trade your actual trade knowledge isn't as important as your management ability.

FS/WO in my trade are the ones who should be the font of all knowledge and who you go to for specialist advice.

 

[briggfairy]

FS/WO in my trade are the ones who should be the font of all knowledge and who you go to for specialist advice.

At the moment yes, but in the proposed flatter rank structure things could change, there has always been a bit of an awkward crossover in the techie world when the Jengo outranks the WO but has far far less knowledge. with the opportunity for everyone to reach the current officer ranks on merit there is a very good chance that specialist knowledge will be spread higher up the rank structure.

 

[Stevienics]

t

he opportunity for everyone to reach the current officer ranks on merit there is a very good chance that specialist knowledge will be spread higher up the rank structure.

The potential is certainly there among the trades for a relatively straightforward assimilation into commissioned branches - but then again, it already is and it is even easier to achieve at WO anyway right now.

What's the intention?

 

[Beverley127]

Chief Tech

Chief Tech

Getting rid of the Chf Tech would be sacrilege - prior to 1964 it would take 12 years from JT.

 

[chumpzilla]

t

The potential is certainly there among the trades for a relatively straightforward assimilation into commissioned branches - but then again, it already is and it is even easier to achieve at WO anyway right now.

What's the intention?

The most off putting thing for most (i reckon) WRT transferring from the ranks to commission is the fact that an experienced SNCO has to go in at the start of Cranditz and get treated like a child among all of the new, fresh out of Uni/daddies pocket kids. They should really look at 2 IOT cadre courses.... possibly based on time served/rank achieved, but omit those plastic Snecs who leap straight in to Sgt unless they have sufficient time served.

 

[techie_tubby]

The commissioned FS scheme has this in place. They enter at term 2 of IOT.


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[chumpzilla]

The commissioned FS scheme has this in place. They enter at term 2 of IOT.


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Yes but why is that only reserved for FS? Baffles me....

 

[222]

Yes but why is that only reserved for FS? Baffles me....

You don’t have to agree with it but surely it shouldn’t baffle you..?

WOs do CWOC, FS are being trialed starting in Term 2 and other NCOs/ORs are being considered for different entry points also under the auspices of Project Mercury. All down to Rank (Previous training received) and experience.

 

[SAXAVORDIAN]

I seem to recall they poo poo the notion of Lance CPL for the ranks after SAC during the eighties, Whether the higher scramble egg wearers felt being near Army was bad enough. Then again seeing we have reached the merry age of 100 might be worth, re-looking at how you distinguish length of service on the ranks. Similar to the American model.

 

[Spearmint]

I seem to recall they poo poo the notion of Lance CPL for the ranks after SAC during the eighties, Whether the higher scramble egg wearers felt being near Army was bad enough. Then again seeing we have reached the merry age of 100 might be worth, re-looking at how you distinguish length of service on the ranks. Similar to the American model.

The rocks have it as they can have Lance Jack's as Fire Team Leaders or whatever the f*ck it is. I remember it being floated past us JT's as an idea but it gained no traction as it was well.....a sh1t idea.