Cull the Higher Ranks!

[Sunnyside_Up]

Just thinking out loud really-

Now that HQ STC and HQ PTC are being amalgamated why doesnt "le grande fromage" cull all the ageing Air Ranks (you know the kind- cold war mentality, doesn't know how to use a PC type, let alone know about buzz terms like "network enabled capability"!) that are being left to turn to dust down the corridors of Strike.

The money they sap with their pensions and overpaid desk jobs ("Work" nay "existence"!) could be used elsewhere. Get the Wing Co's/Sqn Ldrs to do their jobs- not only are they capable but paid less and are much younger! (And know how to work a PC!)

Any thoughts?

 

[wobbly]

Hehehehe, you will go straight to hell for that one......true mind.

 

[Line35]

See post in 'Lean'

Because of the combining of both HQs, they are introducing 'Lean' at HQSTC apparently, so that they can get rid of all the civvies and enlisted filth, to ensure they have room for all the officers.

It is said that the 2* blew a fuse when a blerk asked if the 'Lean' process at HQSTC was going to be the same one that was used so successfully at Lyneham. Affability to aperplexy in 2 milliseconds - go!

 

[M_for_Mother]

Are you for real? Theres no such thing as an ´aging, Cold War Type´ of Senior Officer. Most of these guys are pretty clued up on their doctrine and policy, I should imagine thats why they got to be Senior Officers. They are the chaps driving Network Enabled Capability and the digitalization of the Battlespace.

Culling Senior Officers is not necessary. Re-educating them to understand the tone and drive of the body of men and women who work beneath them is. Most of these guys are exceptional Officers who have lost touch with the mainstay of the RAF, its Airmen and Airwomen. I´ll give you one example:

I work at a very busy base thats undergoing a lot of change at the moment (like that narrows it down!) We were told to expect a visit from CAS, who wanted to chat with us and discuss our concerns.

So there must be 40-50 Officers from across the Stn in this room and CAS is walking from group to group, saying hello and small-talking his way through the morning.

Just before he goes, he turns to address the whole room. The Officers know that the guys are getting change-weary, perhaps the CAS will address this in some way. Maybe he will talk about redundancies, or OOAs. He may even reveal his views on the many problems we encounter at this time. Silence falls in anticipation of some hallowed words from the man, some intent, some direction!!

´thanks very much, it was lovely to meet you all´ he says, and then fcuks off!

Very clever bloke, but completely out of touch.

 

[Bluntend]

Most of these guys are pretty clued up on their doctrine and policy, I should imagine thats why they got to be Senior Officers.

and yet...

Very clever bloke, but completely out of touch.

So Mother, if the CAS (the most senior Officer in the RAF) is out of touch, who is going to drive for the 're-education' of all those senior officers below him? All the while the people at the top haven't got a clue about what's going on on the shop floor, uninformed decisions will continue to be made and weak policies driven through.

Quite frankly how you can justify retaining the huge numbers of Gp Capts and above whilst we are heamorraging experience at 'producer/supervisor level' is beyond me. I know of one Sqn (a particularly heavily tasked one I might add) that lost 15 SNCOs in tranch 2 alone - thats around 300 collective years of experience out of the door in the space of a week. Madness.

It just astounds me that not one officer of the 40 - 50 at your visit from the CAS had the balls to question him on the redundancies, or OOAs or the impact this has on the troops. No wonder the top dogs are out of touch - no one tells them whats really going on! Maybe a cull of jnr officers is whats required and then replace them with those with the back bone to stand up and make a point.

 

[M_for_Mother]

Quite right, get the Officers out the door and put the SNCOs in charge of the whole show, that will make it better. You bang on the same tired thread Bluntend, I can only assume that you have an axe to grind. Far be it for me to suggest that exactly same happened over lunch in the SNCOs mess, but it did.

Its pathetic that some people actually think that such widespread generalizations would actually instantly improve things. You would be up in arms though, if your promotion was upheld because we got rid of Gp Capt X, the boarding Officer.

We are losing a lot of experience, but eventually that will be recouped, it has been decided that the RAF is too large at its business end, so get used to it. We retain a crucial number of SOs to provide weight against unpopular political decisions and help influence Service Policy. I agree that there must be improvements, but leaning the Command structure will not help. These guys need to spend some time working with low-level units to find out what makes them tick, perhaps then there will not be so much haste to force things like E2E and LEAN on the troops.

Bluntend, whatever has happened to you to turn you so sour on Officers must have been really awful. I can only apologise for what happened to embitter you so.

 

[Sunnyside_Up]

Maybe a cull of jnr officers is whats required and then replace them with those with the back bone to stand up and make a point.

"back bone to stand up and make a point" Isnt this trait in SNCOs called "billigerent"?

As for CAS- he does tour round stations giving briefs to the breadth of ranks on units. In this forum he is able to give us the latest insight in OOAs etc etc
More often than not he will get lambasted by all ranks in the question and answer session! However- the case MFM spoke of was nothing less than a tea party, which gives CAS a chance to chat normally to the JOs- not debate Air Force policy. Theres a time and a place. So maybe a "cull of JOs" was a knee jerk comment bluntend!

 

[Sunnyside_Up]

And I was wrong about culling the higher ranks down at STC- as MFM says there is a good reason why they're there and I appreciate that now. Each are SOs in specific subject matters. I still think that many of their jobs could be undertaken by Sqn Ldr/ Wg Cdr though, as I'm sure they are just as intelligent!

 

[Bluntend]

Mother. How can having the same number of Air ranking officers today as we had during WWII, yet having half the number of ‘producers’ be considered lean? The system we had five to ten years ago was monumentally top heavy, under lean it has been made worse.

All the while we have a management level that not only refuses to listen and consider the points being made by people who know what they’re talking about but also tries to push the issues to one side with sweeping naïve generalisations such as “You bang on the same tired thread…” things will never ever improve. For someone to make such assumptions yet “bang on” about “widespread generalisations” is a joke. You may well think that standing up for what you KNOW is pathetic but I’m sorry I don’t!

To say that things will be okay in the end because all of the experience we are losing will be recouped is naive in the extreme and demonstrates a complete lack of understanding of issues such as overstretch, flight safety, and what it actually takes to operate effectively and safely. Furthermore, who making the decision to reduce working levels of experience is informed or qualified enough to make the assumption that things will be 'ok in the end'? If The CAS is out of touch – your words, not mine, what makes you think that his immediate subordinates aren’t as well?

Sunnyside. Although some may believe that if a SNCO stands his ground then this is "belligerence”, I, however, expect “belligerence” of all my SNCOs. If an officer is making a bloody stupid decision, no SNCO worth his salt should allow the decision to go through without a fight. I can only assume that if you are an officer and you find yourself fighting your SNCOs the majority of the time, it is not your SNCOs that are at fault. Surely, though, having the courage of your convictions is what being an officer is all about (commissioned or otherwise). If the current batch of JOs lacks this conviction, then yes, a cull is what is required. Sadly, It’s the lame, weak, ineffective grey-man officers who put chasing promotion ahead of doing what is right for the air force that are telling their superiors that everything is ‘fine’, contrary to the advice of their Senior and Junior NCOs.

Oh, and finally...

Bluntend, whatever has happened to you to turn you so sour on Officers must have been really awful. I can only apologise for what happened to embitter you so.

It’s the fact, Mother, that as an officer, when I look around at some of my contemporaries I realise that some should never have passed out through Cranwell and are an embarrassment to the RAF. Nevertheless, apology accepted.

 

[Plumber]

Bloody well said Blunty. Perhaps if more JO's listened to what their experienced snecs had to say, life would be a whole lot easier.

 

[Twonston Pickle]

Good points raised by all. However, I remember my first couple of tours as a JO. I had 2 choices: the first was to listen to my experienced regt WO and think before acting, or do as I thought best. I opted for the 1st and haven't regretted it since; SNCO, there is a reason why they are stubborn!

Edited 'cause I put the wrong thing down!

 

[Jongleur]

Plumber you make the, not always correct, assumption that SNCOs always talk sense! I have heard just as much sh1t from SNCOs as Officers.

 

[goatblower]

Of course, you could by pass the whole shooting match and go straight to the Sec of Defence on one of his Image busting trips:-

He went all round the room, talking to the movers, lovely, and the shineys, great, and the medics, oh joyous.

As he approached the final group, us techies, the mood kind of changed as the SWO introduced us-' and here,sir, are the aircraft technicians' ,did a 180 and walked, smartly, to a safe distance.

Once both barells had been let loose on him, (and I dont mean namby questions like leave and other bolloks, but questions on deployment, kitting, lack of manpower and other sensible questions on sustaining an ever stretched, undermanned, professional service) do you know what he did??? He went bright red, mumbled something no-one heard and shuffled away.

His name was Geoff Hoon (TCH) and I cannot imagine the new bod is much better at getting to grips with reality!!!

If these are the mis-informed, ignorant type of people that actually run the whole show then you cannot think that the people who feed them the spin on how great we are are actually much better at facing the reality that we are probably only a few years away from imploding!!

And as for your network capabilities and spaceship battlefield tosh, can it actually mend aircraft, police a war zone, protect the airfield, sort the pay out.....er, didnt think so!!!!!

I heard a little tale the other day, the RAF now has a ratio of Air Officers/aircraft of 2/1, can anyone substantiate this???

Anyway, have to go now before I upset someone important, and we know there are a lot of important people!!!

 

[Tanktops]

Ratio of stars to a/c in 2004

Ratio of stars to a/c in 2004

I heard a little tale the other day, the RAF now has a ratio of Air Officers/aircraft of 2/1, can anyone substantiate this???

Latest figures from up to date Air Force website that I could find... http://www.raf.mod.uk/downloads/documents/raftoday2004.pdf
or

2004 RAF AIRCRAFT STRENGTH (edited to show fast[-ish] jets only!)
Tornado F3 - 91
Tornado GR4 - 112
Jaguar GR3 - 39
Jaguar T4 - 7
Harrier GR7/7A - 51
Harrier T10 - 9
Canberra PR9 - 4
Canberra T4 - 1

Total a/c - 314
Air Rank Officers in 2004 - 132

Ratio of fast jets to Air Ranks - one Air Rank for every 2.378 pointy jets





But it's all right, we've still got these too...
Spitfire Mk IIa/Vb/IXe - 3
Spitfire Mk XIX - 2
Hurricane IIc - 2

 

[Bushy Mills]

Anyone remember the Bett farce a while ago?

Apart from the rubbish of getting Mr BT in to look at the Airforce he did make a huge statement when he said DO NOT CHERRY PICK this report.

He said there were too many ranks and went on about which ones could go and which ones could be amalgamated etc.

Of course, his report was cherry picked.

So, the bottom line when the senior "those who must be obeyed" took hold of it was to talk about getting rid of Pilot Officers and Junior Technician ranks.

No where did they act on the recommendations about Air Ranks. Funny that ain't it???

But you have to admit, if you were a Squadron Leader with a good few years left, you would want as many Air Rank slots as possible so that you didn't have to do the early 1990's Techie dance of the dying SNCO to get promoted.