Bicycle races; a Team event ?

[Ex-Bay]

OK, I give up.
There are many sports or activities the nature of which is beyond me completely (Judo being one of them). Another is cycling - road races in particular. Having managed somehow to have missed the Ladies Volleyball (the BBC are spending alot of time on other sports, for some obscure reason), I figured a bit of the cycling might make sense. Wrong again, XB !

"It's a race", I thought, defined as a competition to see who can go from point A to point B faster that any other competitor.

Then there's a Team event; take the Archery, for example. A competition where the collective scores of individual team members is added up and the team with the most at the end, wins the competition. Alternatively, where a Team does something collective; such as Football of Volleyball, and the Team having the highest score - wins.

So while I watch the cycling listening to the commentator muttering about how 'a team' may do this or that (something I could not see, let alone understand), and I'm thinking "did I miss something about the definition of a "race" I have missed ? (and naturally, there was the bit about 'the sprint' which in a race is, I thought, left to the individual concerned).

So, if there's anyone in the Goat who can point me in a direction to understand this Gallic nonsense, or simply explain it to me, I'd be very pleased.

DT_Xtremez_42:

 

[Weebl]

It's not difficult?

Working alone riding a bike is exponentially harder than riding behind somebody else, and taking it in turns to be the one working against all the wind resistance. People from the same country are on 'teams' If you as a cyclist are better at climbing, or sprinting, or time trialling, then in a road race you play your part to get the strongest from your team for that particular race, get into the best position towards the end.

That might mean that you completely knacker yourself out by 2/3rds distance, but if you have reeled all the breakaways back in, and got your team mates back up the front every time, then as you stop or peel off to the back, you have played your part.

If you want to see straight up, A to B who is best individually, then watch time trialling.

 

[propersplitbrainme]

Do you understand the purpose/role of a pacemaker in track events? Sporting prowess isn't 100% about what you are able to do with your body, a good part of it is what goes on in your head; the worlds greatest individual sportsmen/women have been thwarted by lesser opponents who have simply out-thought them. A cycling team works to help each other, setting an appropriate pace, one rider maybe sacrificing his/her own final position to assist a rider who has a strong finish but may need help setting the pace through the bulk of the race. They can also provide a draft for each other, cover moves by other riders, provide encouragement and moral support and so on.

 

[topstop]

If you carnt understand the road racing your brain will explode trying to follow the "Madison" on the indoor track latter.

Edited due to new information.
Bugger its been dropped from this Olympics.

 

[topstop]

If you carnt understand the road racing your brain will explode trying to follow the "Madison" on the indoor track latter.

Edited due to new information.
Bugger its been dropped from this Olympics.

See the last one

 

[PraiseBacon]

I watched some of the ladies cycling today - and was slightly confused about competitors from other countries having to work together for a while - then sprint off . But as the Brit lady won a medal (silver), i got over it and just enjoyed watching the race while realising i didn't have to understand the tactics..

Tactics , and scoring, for some other 'team' events left me really confused as well - for example I watched the woman's synchronised 3meter diving this afternoon - no idea whatsoever how it is scored or why one dive is better than another. But I did very much enjoy the arse on one of the Ukrainian competitors, so sat back and enjoyed watching that - and again realised I dind't care how it was scored - but thought 5 rounds wasn't enough...

Loving the Olympics so far..

 

[Teh Wal]

... Having managed somehow to have missed the Ladies Volleyball (the BBC are spending alot of time on other sports, for some obscure reason)...

Dude, you're just not trying hard enough, just watched 2 hours of ladies beach volleyball on the Red Button thingie that the Beeb has got. DT_Xtremez_28:

 

[Ex-Bay]

If you carnt understand the road racing your brain will explode trying to follow the "Madison" on the indoor track latter.

Edited due to new information.
Bugger its been dropped from this Olympics.

I watched that particular piece of cycling idiocy before; it was fascinating and completely baffling (as is most of the competitive cycling to me). Similarly, the Keirin or that bloody nonsense where they crawl round for a lap or two and then go like hell.

But I get the idea. It strikes me, however, that it should be a team event. Why should one person win the medal when he/she would not have won had it not been for the efforts of the team-mates ?

I also watched form of the synchro-diving. (you're quite right; that Ukrainian possessed a very tidy backside.).
And I watched GBR beat Canada in the Ladies Volleyball. It were great!

 

[XVR RA RA RA]

The interesting thing about road cycling is two rival teams will work together. Taking it in turns drafting and setting the pace by leap frogging, so that the two teams can at least get 2nd place. If the two rival teams did not work together, both could end up finish way down the table.

I suppose when rival teams join together, each cyclist doesn't have to be out in front as often and gets more of a rest behind the train.

And in the Tour de France, there's races within races. A cyclist may only be interested in winning the polka dot king of the mountains jersey. So he will sit back on the flat stages until a hill climb, then cycle like mad to front, then once he has the "king of the mountains" he'll let everyone who's interested in winning the yellow jersey go past.
The guy who has the yellow jersey will happily sit back in the middle, if the guys in front are not a threat of taking the yellow jersey from him. There's no point tiring yourself out, if you don't have to and you've still got 2000 miles to go.

What I do like about the Tour de France is the amazing scenery on tv and seeing all the bonkers spectators line the side of the road. As shown in this amazing 2 minute video



What does make me wonder... A cyclist who does all the hard work for the team captain is called a "domestique", the team captain then rolls over the line at the end to steal the victory. If a good cyclist fancies his chances, why should he follow team orders by working hard just to secure victory for his team captain? And end up losing out himself? I know this sound selfish, but I think it's selfish that a domestique with potential is held back by following team orders.

 

[Max]

What does make me wonder... A cyclist who does all the hard work for the team captain is called a "domestique", the team captain then rolls over the line at the end to steal the victory. If a good cyclist fancies his chances, why should he follow team orders by working hard just to secure victory for his team captain? And end up losing out himself? I know this sound selfish, but I think it's selfish that a domestique with potential is held back by following team orders.

If you read Lance Armstrongs book It's not about the Bike he explains it a bit better, Besides if you don't follow team orders you may find yourself without a team, You could say the same about F1 with regards to team orders.

 

[wolfy]

Why don't they just work on it being a proper team race with say the first 3 of your team counting towards a TEAM medal rather than all this four people dragging around the teams best sprinter (WHICH WE ARE SO GOOD AT) it would be make the race more interesting

 

[NotAnIDOYet]

What does make me wonder... A cyclist who does all the hard work for the team captain is called a "domestique", the team captain then rolls over the line at the end to steal the victory. If a good cyclist fancies his chances, why should he follow team orders by working hard just to secure victory for his team captain? And end up losing out himself? I know this sound selfish, but I think it's selfish that a domestique with potential is held back by following team orders.

prize winnings are spread about equally amongst the team as an acknowledgement of what the domestiques do for the captain. Watching Cav work as a dom for Wiggo and Froome on the tour shows what a team sport it is.

The women's road race yesterday showed excellent teamwork, even when the 4 broke away. They all knew that someone couldn't ride the front all the way and be competitive at the end, hence the turns at the front. The Russian settled for bronze about 15 k out and stopped helping as much, leaving Voss and Armistead to fight it out. What the rest do the team did early on (especially Emma Pooley) was to negate any attacks by going with them, ensuring that we had British interest in the front at all times.

Interestingly Dave Brailsford was on the BBC last night and said he wouldn't have changed tactics for the men's race if it was run again - nobody else was racing at all to support a sprinter. The sad truth is nobody was prepared to race Cav on the Mall. Should they have gone earlier to bridge the gap? Possibly but it was a manageable split coming off the final lap of Box Hill if another team had taken a turn at the front of the peloton. Everyone was happy to watch GB lose rather than win themselves.

However in the velodrome this kind of negative racing cannot happen, and if you think the Madison is mental look at the omnium! Even the tactics in the individual sprint are mental, what with track-stands etc.

Victoria will look lovely whether she wins or not!

 

[Weebl]

Why don't they just work on it being a proper team race with say the first 3 of your team counting towards a TEAM medal rather than all this four people dragging around the teams best sprinter (WHICH WE ARE SO GOOD AT) it would be make the race more interesting

Because there are team events like that as well.

People don't really see it, but modern cycling is a team event, just because the Olympics only awards one medal for certain races won't change that.

Rather than proposing changing the whole sport of Cycling, you would be better asking that the Olympic organisers award a gold medal to everybody who is on the same team (same country) as the bloke who crosses the line first, even though some of them will have not helped at all and would have no hope of being towards the front at the end.

It's just the way the sport works, you cannot realistically expect them to change it just because you watched it once during the Olympics and it confused you a bit. People who understand it, get it.

 

[Malesu]

The main thing for Cav to worry about is that during the Pro season, he can still wear the Rainbow Jersey as World Champion. I cant remember there being one for Olympic Champion.

 

[wolfy]

Weeble I do understand it, however it does not mean I have to agree with it. As there is no team race of the type that most would understand I just think it would be a better event for the Olympics thats all.