BAe having second thoughs on LEAN?

[Rigga]

Spot on. I could never see how moving aeroplanes during a servicing could make it quicker to service them. Does Civvy street do this, I bet not! Maybe Rigga and Dirty Harry may confirm this?

Many civvy jets are too large to move and Hangars generally don't have the wasted space to move into anyway. So no choice there.

Shortly after I left the RAF I saw pictures of Harriers at Cottesmore being moved on Air Trolleys?

And I do agree that moving an aircraft between "Stages" only stops work to enable the move - unfortunately someone seems to have confused the "production of aircraft from maintenance" with "aircraft production" - not quite the same thing really, but then, someone else's mate has made a hell of a lot of money from the recommendation/sale of Air Trolleys. (allegedly)


Finally, to set the scene before LEAN...
Coningsby's AOC's Day 1995 - AMF Hangar.
Doors open and in walks entourage with AOC Whoever. Whoever walks to the nearest Team and asks for the person in charge....
Enter Sgt S***** Peacock.

Whoever: "Tell me Sarge, If you could shorten the amount of time taken for this maintenance what would you do?"

SP: "Well Sir, given that we've just been Manpower Reviewed; four JT's have been taken from each Team; and the allocated days for this aircraft have been reduced from Fourty days to Thirty days; I don't think we have any Leeway to reduce anything any further."

Whoever: "Let me put it another way then.....If I give you a Cheque for one thousand pounds for every day you could shorten this aircraft's stay, What would you do?"

SP: "You write the Cheque for 30 Grand Sir, and I'll sign the aircraft up now."

Whoever: "Your being facecious Sargeant!"

SP: "You started it Sir!"

 

[I Look Like Kevin Costner]

Unfortunately someone seems to have confused the "production of aircraft from maintenance" with "aircraft production" - not quite the same thing really, but then, someone else's mate has made a hell of a lot of money from the recommendation/sale of Air Trolleys. (allegedly)

Absolutey correct on production / maintenance. The designer of the AIRSTAKE was the Wing Commander who was in charge of the FIST (pre Lean name) team that came to look at the way we worked (& changed it mostly for the worse!). Wg Cdr LEAN Airstake is now a Group Capt and OBE to boot.
The Airskate idea actually came from the Apahce production line and the consultants who steam rollered everything through were "production" consultants!!!DT_Xtremez_25:

 

[Forestfan]

Finally, to set the scene before LEAN...
Coningsby's AOC's Day 1995 - AMF Hangar.
Doors open and in walks entourage with AOC Whoever. Whoever walks to the nearest Team and asks for the person in charge....
Enter Sgt S***** Peacock.

Whoever: "Tell me Sarge, If you could shorten the amount of time taken for this maintenance what would you do?"

SP: "Well Sir, given that we've just been Manpower Reviewed; four JT's have been taken from each Team; and the allocated days for this aircraft have been reduced from Fourty days to Thirty days; I don't think we have any Leeway to reduce anything any further."

Whoever: "Let me put it another way then.....If I give you a Cheque for one thousand pounds for every day you could shorten this aircraft's stay, What would you do?"

SP: "You write the Cheque for 30 Grand Sir, and I'll sign the aircraft up now."

Whoever: "Your being facecious Sargeant!"

SP: "You started it Sir!"

ISTR this day Rigga, though not as well as you clearly do! I was on that team, and SP was full of stuff like that. Top bloke to work for.

We might know each other can you PM me?

FF

 

[goldenballs mkII]

Cottersmore however were caught hook line and sinker (just as Marham seem to be). Work that should was continuatly passed down phases as the aircraft "pulsed!" Bet that hasn't changed!::

No......................................
although after the problem was raised at every production review, a feeble attempt to disguise this has been to allow the phase workers who 'own' the outstanding work to continue working on the aircraft after it has left their phase. However this simply obstructs the workers of the current phase until they too find themselves behind on targets and eventually have to continue working the jet after it passes into the next phase................repeat to fade!DT_Xtremez_08:

 

[the_crab]

I fcuking hope so! I'd love to see Jeremy Simpler choke on his own patronising sh1t!DT_Xtremez_25:

fully agree realist......as you'll remember after some of our chats/rants in your office, lol

 

[Rigga]

Wonderful! - I've found that the best way to prove just how bad a new system is, is to let it fail under its own steam.
Painful to watch - but it is justice.

 

[I Look Like Kevin Costner]

Cmu

Cmu

And Im in a blue suit world, well away from it!!!!!

When I was told this, should have seen the smile on my face.....

No Fossil, Rob h, That C#nt Nix!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Seakingfixer]

LEAN at Coltishall..... or how NOT to do it??!!!

LEAN at Coltishall..... or how NOT to do it??!!!

Have been reading with great interest your comments on LEAN at Marham,
and I too have mates working there that tell me it's a nightmare.
Remember guys, when Blue Suits ran the outfit, we were not budget driven, and if there was a delay, well we just rescheduled or worked some overtime!
I personally experienced the LEAN Machine at Coltishall, and that to**er with the beard that told us "Yes, this will work" - my Ar*e!!!!
Result - one damn good Engine Bay destroyed, and NO engines being produced due to a Supply Chain problem?!!
What was sad was that the newest LAC in the bay actually predicted the outcome, and no one listened??!!!
AMF on the other hand had stronger management who fought it off - Good Call!!!!
I reckon that BAE are set to take over the world (or so they think!) but lets face it, they build aircraft? Times must be hard for them to want to get involved with the RAF, and I reckon it is a huge gamble??
Good luck guys, and just remember that Airworks and DARA didn't hack it, so maybe there is hope yet?!!!!!

 

[rigpig]

Here Here Borats Bro

I'm sick of people taring Lean with the Fwd/depth split we had to try and use lean to " get Fwd/Depth to work" qoute from a former OC Eng.

Lean has a bad enough rep as it is without people making stuff up.

Remember one day you could be posted on a CIT team!!!!!! you wan't your third?
::

 

[Past Engineering]

I must be losing the plot a tad with Lean, I thought that the RAF thought it was a brilliant idea, but unfortunately utilised the concept 'incorrectly' to reduce manpower, tooling/test equipment, GFE and C-stores, to that end they succeded brilliantly.

The fact that the RAF is now in the state it is in now and getting worse thanks to the MOD/Government/Lean initiatives is as far as I know is not the fault of any civvie company that has been contracted to fill the hole that the above mentioned parties have caused through bad management and no brains.

The civvie companies are now expected to pay for all these short falls when they are not contracted do so, but have shared the cost/pain in a attempt to help and be pro-active/practice the new Partnering concept to try and help the guys at the sharp end.

The MOD and Government also keep changing the goal posts as they historically have, deny culpability, have basically stuck their heads in the sand and the civvie companies are taking the flak and cost, I admit some members of these companies are a bit short on experience/knowledge/skills/abilities, but then the RAF has quite a few in these groups as well.

 

[Joe_90]

On the subject of letting things fail under their own steam, I wish my Snec would do that. Instead of working to the new rules imposed by lean he makes us work around them but not tell anyone. How the feck does that work? I'm a great believer in utilising the systems you've got, if it doesn't work, change it. It's not him working his balls off though. If we don't all point out the failings and have the process changed we are always going to have to work harder. The problem is zobs that wont listen and Snecs after the next promotion in my opinion. You know who you are, usually the ones complaining the most and doing the least to help change it.

 

[Past Engineering]

I am afraid the 'can do work arounds' are fine in the short term but come back to bite us in the backside sooner or later, to highlight a problem you need middle management with a pair of big ones to turn around and stop work until said management wake up to what they are responsible for doing and sort it.

Unfortunately there is to much control and inteference from idiots in the bean counting empires/government and dare I say the MOD who know nothing about the what is going on at the sharp end. The only way to hit them is to stop doing the job they ask and when they pull their heads out of the sand and ask why is nothing happening, point out to them that the barrel is dry we have nothing/no one left to work with.

Unfortunately for all the reasons Joe_90 points the above will never happen, additionally allthough people have said god fobid there is an accident, when one comes along and we say 'told you so', it would seem that the people at the top just do not care about the job or the people who try their best to achieve all is asked of them, they look suprised and deny culpability and shove their heads back in the sand. So really that is why the people who should do the right thing give up.