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Army having another bash

Dave-exfairy

Warrant Officer
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Yes, the lads and lasses on ARRSE are having another pop at the RAF, some quite breathtakingly ignorant views on there, not the normal p!sstaking, but a total mis-understanding of what the RAF is about.
ARRSE THREAD
 
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Weebl

Flight Sergeant
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Yep, read it.

Amazing how people who have no idea how the Air Force is run see themselves fit to make sweeping statements about how we do stuff wrong (for wrong, read differently to the Army)

The thing is though, our own heirachy make it worse, they reel off twaddle like 'Warfighter First' and then we get 2 days training per year in green kit (not everyone I know, but the majority of us just do CCS and IRT) They know we are not 'soldiers' and they don't want us to be because they cannot afford for us not to be doing our trade, but they trot out the party line soundbites because it ticks the right boxes.

Anybody else been in the situation where one or both is about to run out and somebody on the Sqn whinges like a bitch because you are not at work (but they would of corse whinge like a bitch if you went out of date)

If they want us to do PT 3 times a week and be fairly well trained in the 'green' aspects of life then employ more tradesmen so we have time to do it, and 2 days, of which a lot is spent in a lecture room just won't cut it. (Yes, I can and do go to the gym in my own time but I am pretty sure I cannot go to the Armoury and sign out a rifle and time I feel like a bit of practice)
 
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Scottow Horseshoe

Guest
Read it!

Read it!

Just remember, the average squaddie is no more intelligent :pDT_Xtremez_34: than a bloke off the street and you'll do fine.......the only thing they know about is their job and anything else is an abberation....some of them on there understand little and spout a LOT, but if you look carefully you'll find a few who are smart enough to see things for what they are!
 
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R_Squared

Flight Sergeant
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What do you expect? Quite frankly I'm not surprised.

I am slightly worried about the Army/ Navy love fest that seems to be going on though. If they could stick their tongues any further up each others arses they'd taste snot.

On balance though, most of the posts are reasoned and not without merit, just ignore the ignorant, TA types and keyboard Rambos.
 
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pie sandwich

Guest
I ve just read this, they really are a bunch of mong's.

They are complaining that we will not do something when asked because it would be illegal or that they have to turn up 12 hrs before their flight.
Did they ever stop and think why !!! If they are late it's not as if they can just jump on the next flight in a few hours like you could if you were off to spain.

The only people putting up a reasoned argument are the ex or serving RAF, with maybe one or two who have seen the big picture.
 

MrMasher

Somewhere else now!
Subscriber
5,053
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I read the first 2 pages and that was enough for me.
How wrong could they get it?
I'll give them their gripes about when things have gone wrong, but to tarnish the entire RAF with that brush speaks volumes about their ignorance.
The comments about them being soldiers first and the navy doing damage control first made me chuckle, as if they are inferring we're all Jerenmy Kyle technicians.
Having done chinnies and harriers I've done a bit of both, as have many "crabs".

If the army are so great how come they managed to influence the JAP to such an extent that a schoolchild of 3 would find it below them?

Muppets...............
 

duffman

Flight Sergeant
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Had a look at it, there are a couple of idiots, but a few of them just making the point if you go off camp you should be reasonably trained to look after yourself, i don't think that is way off the mark.
 

lisab

Girlie Brosette Mod - I owe you nothing...oooh ah!
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The Army/RAF ruck has been going since what feels like the beginning of time! and no doubt will continue until we are all long gone, I say let em carry on bless em it makes them feel a bit better about being illiterate/uneducated/smelly etc etc and lets be honest it really is unfair for us to hold intelligent debate with them when they haven't got the correct tools for it!:pDT_Xtremez_28:
 
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Scottow Horseshoe

Guest
That's it!

That's it!

The Army/RAF ruck has been going since what feels like the beginning of time! and no doubt will continue until we are all long gone, I say let em carry on bless em it makes them feel a bit better about being illiterate/uneducated/smelly etc etc and lets be honest it really is unfair for us to hold intelligent debate with them when they haven't got the correct tools for it!:pDT_Xtremez_28:

Precisely!.....bigest dichotomic phrase "Army Intelligence"

But i'd watch yourself...:pDT_Xtremez_15: I served in the Army too! (Don't Tar ME with the same brush though!)

Mind you I was always at odds with other Snecs because I thought for myself and even had the temerity to b*llock the cook for serving the lads Sh*te grub after a hard days live firing, when the BSM intervened on the cooks side I effectively cut off further promotion chances by telling him that "His F***ing Crown was on his arm, NOT on his head, so he could take a flying ****"

I must admit I did leave because of all of the Grade A ar*eholes that made operating an effective Artillery Battery a nightmare and the crap way of worrying about rank and position rather than the job in hand...anyway, i've been on and had a dig back myself.
 

PingDit

Flight Sergeant
Subscriber
1000+ Posts
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I've put a post on there in an attempt to redirect their misguided idea of the RAF.
Doubt it'll make any difference though.
 

True Blue Jack

Warrant Officer
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I've put a post on there in an attempt to redirect their misguided idea of the RAF.
Doubt it'll make any difference though.

It won't if you kiss their fat hairy ringpieces like you have done. :raf:

In general terms the Army view of the RAF is as wrong as is the RAF view of the Army. Even having worked in joint environments and with an ex-pongo brother-in-law I can't honestly say I know how the Army works. Funnily enough, I know some AGC(SPS) guys who have spent the vast majority of their careers in headquarters; I don't think they really know how the Army works either.
 

PingDit

Flight Sergeant
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1000+ Posts
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It won't if you kiss their fat hairy ringpieces like you have done. :raf:

In general terms the Army view of the RAF is as wrong as is the RAF view of the Army. Even having worked in joint environments and with an ex-pongo brother-in-law I can't honestly say I know how the Army works. Funnily enough, I know some AGC(SPS) guys who have spent the vast majority of their careers in headquarters; I don't think they really know how the Army works either.


I meant every word as well. What I was attempting to point out to them is the fact that the RAF are generally better qualified on joining and effectivley implying that they're not exactly at the forefront in the intelligence stakes. I was also attempting to point out that we have 3 separate services for a reason.
 

True Blue Jack

Warrant Officer
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I meant every word as well. What I was attempting to point out to them is the fact that the RAF are generally better qualified on joining and effectivley implying that they're not exactly at the forefront in the intelligence stakes. I was also attempting to point out that we have 3 separate services for a reason.

Points made with eloquence and subtlety that I fear will escape the gorillas among ARRSE's membership.
 
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Proximo

Guest
Ping Dit and True Blue Jack - thanks for your comments: especially you PD for your honesty and attempt to introduce some balance over on ARRSE. Unfortunately, the truth hurts and maybe the Army feel the pain more than most! :D I have particularly enjoyed reading some of the comments on this thread and have to say that some are just as misguided as those on the one on ARRSE. I shall refer to Ping Dit's parting short: we have 3 services for a reason - well said indeed, Sir.
 

BillyBunter

Techie & Proud
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Well I dont go onto ArRSE or whatever its called , therefore i dont see what crap they say about us , not that i really care what they say about us , im adult i can take the **** but I do not bite to people who by the sounds of it trying to start a fight .

If the Army want to start a fight with us fine , if it makes them fight better and start ridding the world of terrorists them fine crack on , if not leave it to the boys in blue who can kill more bad guys in one day than it takes them in 1 month. The spirit of 1 team 1 fight is loosing its worth now in the UK cog of warfare , I think we need another Lean or something to sort the Army out :pDT_Xtremez_30:

And I think Brize should start putting a few more AT flights U/S till they get the message
 

PingDit

Flight Sergeant
Subscriber
1000+ Posts
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Well I dont go onto ArRSE or whatever its called , therefore i dont see what crap they say about us , not that i really care what they say about us , im adult i can take the **** but I do not bite to people who by the sounds of it trying to start a fight .

If the Army want to start a fight with us fine , if it makes them fight better and start ridding the world of terrorists them fine crack on , if not leave it to the boys in blue who can kill more bad guys in one day than it takes them in 1 month. The spirit of 1 team 1 fight is loosing its worth now in the UK cog of warfare , I think we need another Lean or something to sort the Army out :pDT_Xtremez_30:

And I think Brize should start putting a few more AT flights U/S till they get the message

The thread on ARRSE has come about because someone has asked the question: How does the Army get on with or currently perceive the RAF. I read through all 8 pages and don't honestly feel that we're seen in a bad light, but understand that our movers have got a few 'people' problems. They've always had that problem, and it's time we sorted it out. The Army are the best we've got at soldiering, we're the best we've got at flying. Enough said.
 

he_who_dares_rodney

Flight Sergeant
1,026
1
38
Quite honestly I wouldn't even begin to worry about what they say over there
Nip about some of the forums you'll find that nobody even really knows what the rest of the Army does
Most squaddies (and to an extent RAF) live in their own world
Ask an Infantryman what the HCR does and to explain their rank structure he'll not have a clue
Ask a Para what a warrior driver does he'll call him a hat punch you and walk off
Equally on here it's sometimes apparent that some people will have a go at Rocks or other trades without really knowing what that trade does!
Nobody in the Army really sees outside their own Regiment they think every other unit is worse than themselves and don't relly care about anyone else
Don't forget someone can join the Paras or Guards travel 3 times round the world and never leave the Paras or Guards regimental system
Each Regiment does thing differently and outside of that life is foreign to them
Chances are the only time they see the RAF is when they are messed about trying to get a tri star home from somewhere and we all know how bad that can be somtimes but those in the RAF know the 'bigger picture' but the Army just think it is a feck about and see days getting chopped off R & R

This might help
AMENDMENT#93489321 (4TH EDITION) TO UK FORCES ( IRAQ ) SOPs: ACTIONS ON: IMPROVISED EXPLOSIVE DEVICE(IED)

1.Household Cavalry. Regard IED with haughty disdain and rustle Daily Telegraph angrily. Maintain presence of IED in Knightsbridge is "absolutely preposterous". Return to regimental main effort of defending Central London from the roundheads.

2. Cavalry. Declare IED as best thing since tinned champagne, hold impromptu Pimms party to celebrate. Declare subsequent IED detonation as even more "wizard prang", extend Pimms party and incorporate mandatory drinking of champagne from remains of IED as regimental custom for next 300 years.

3.Footguards. Reduce words-of-command and halting in quick time to a minimum. Deploy No.1 fatigue party in close-order to polish IED to acceptable standard, followed by No.2 fatigue party to paint IED blue-red-blue and swab immediate area. IED detonated by massed bands. Deploy 2 X Battalions- worth of fatigue parties to swab resulting mess.

4.Armoured Infantry. Fail to see IED. Crush IED. On realising error, detract attention by initiating faked contact against nearest dwelling using all available weapon systems. Hide remains of IED in sidebin.

5.Light-Role Infantry. Find IED. Fail to find solution to IED due to environmental differences to Salisbury Plain. Attempt cordon operation and set a new world record for miles of mine tape used. Withdraw to COB under cover of mine tape.

6.Parachute Regt. Decide IED is a "hat". Deploy most junior paratrooper to "crack the hat's skull". Call the junior paratrooper a "hat" when he gets blown up by IED. Remind all others that they are "hats" because they weren't there.

7.Royal Marines. Declare that IED is "hoofing". Get junior men naked with IED as an initiation. Turn IED into an improvised free-weight for bench pressing. Indent for extra, extra supplementary rations from "the galley". Hoofing.

8.SAS. Deploy bearded men 200km behind IED using HALO-Landrover-Submarine insertion. Tab into area of IED and capture IED alive. Smuggle IED out in burka and extract to UK . Write a book per team member, all with hugely differing accounts of the OP.

9.SBS. Get into black rubber suits. Steal IED as above. Construct black rubber suit for IED. Move to a special swimming pool and do bad, bad things with black-rubber-coated-IED. Turn on wave machine and let things get properly nasty. Be very grateful for UKSF non-disclosure policy.

10. SRR. Dig hole in ground to hide in. Proceed to watch IED for ten days to make association to Bravos. Divert entire Brigades assets onto tasking. Manage to maintain dignity when informed three weeks later that it's a small rock and not an IED.

11.Royal Artillery. Level entire area ten square kilometres around IED. IED still functional. Repeatedly remind everyone that artillery neutralizes, it doesn't destroy. Create promotional video of IED neutralization with images of Apache and accompanying Tina Turner soundtrack.

12. Medical Corps. Send out a fit hottie to chat-up IED. Fit hottie lightly dabs a damp cloth over the IED to keep it cool and offers reassuring words. Ends up sleeping with IED before announcing undying love and marrying it. IED later detonates when it catches her in bed with an Irish Guardsman

13. Chaplain Corp. Approach the IED preaching about The Lord, oblivious to having entered a come-on. Rounds from nearby insurgents pass over and around the Padre without harming him. IED attempts to detonate and fails as some mysterious force prevents it from engaging. IED is later found giving sermons to scared soldiers new into theatre.

14.Royal Engineers. Destroy IED using charge with 10-times explosive content of IED. Build SQN bar in crater. Use second massive charge to blow second crater in which to build & celebrate opening of SQN bar/gym complex with BBQs every night for the rest of tour. IED appears on next SQN t-shirt.

15.Royal Signals. IED self destructs to avoid WESTLANDS BOWMANISATION. 1

6. BFBS Radio DJ's. Send shout-out on BFBS Radio 1 to IED wishing it good luck and playing 'I Will Survive'. IED detonates out of shame and embarrassment.

17. Royal Military Police. Issue IED with penalty fine of £1000 for loitering and not having FFD/Tourniquet/Morphine. IED detonates in anger and annoyance at the
monkeys wasting its time. Surviving RMP's issue IED with penalty charge for littering.

18.Army Air Corps. Identify ideal opportunity to prove AAC has an offensive role and is not just a taxi service. Launch TOW missile at IED. Missile fails due to armaments contract being given to cheapest bidder. Accept that was the AAC's only missile and disband.

19.Intelligence Corps. Deny existence of IED to unit reporting IED, as they are not sufficiently cleared. Issue BG's with a list of int-based questions to ask IED. Study Q&A analysis and find two main results:
A-Suggest IED may detonate having studied trend analysis of previous IED's
B-Claim it's part of a come-on involving 400 insurgents and Iranian heavy-armour, as that's what the guy who cleans the toilets told them.

20.Div/Bde Headquarters. Issue IED with a notification of controlled explosion. IED ignores/deletes message, as does the rest of theatre.

21. RLC. Get pictures taken whilst posing next to IED with another Units GPMG. IED detonates due to someone making a video call on their mobile phone.

22. RAF. Send the RFS out to investigate IED; fail to notice they never come back. RFS patrol later found upside down in a WMKII in a ditch, in Syria . Patrol Commander admits to being a 'bit unsure about his position', is informed his position is now 'Leading Aircraftsman'

23.Navy. Proclaim IED as a figment of the Army's imagination. Go on a Mediterranean cruise for 3 months. Come back to Middle East waters. Proclaim IED as a figment of the Army's imagination. (repeat indefinitely). Occasionally get taken hostage to relieve the monotony.

24. American Army. Send out a patrol in a hummer with Rhino deployed, then send out a Spectre gunship to destroy the nearest local village in retribution for when it all goes horribly, horribly wrong.

25. Australian Army. Threaten to withdraw entire countries assets from theatre as they heard a rumour there was an IED identified 50 miles south of their position. Demand hand-holding by other already over-stretched British units and then complain when we make them actively look for more IEDs'.

26. Romanian Army. Confuse IED with their gibberish native tongue. Sign the IED onto their stores and attempt to make it part of their armaments supply due to under funding by a government that's abandoned them.

27 Danish Army. Arrive in theatre and promptly invite IED to their camp to join in their BBQ and Drinks sessions held every night. Eventually starve to death as they'd forgot how to open their camp gates on account of having never left. IED detonates to attract attention and help.

28. Iraq Army. Tip up five days after IED reported. Cordon area, remove IED. Corrupt elements of IA then move IED five hundred yards further along road and bury. Ensure MND(SE) that area is now clear.

29. Iraq Civilian. Dig up IED, take to nearest MND(SE) post and attempt to sell IED. Upon refusal, attempts to sell IED to MJAM. MJAM take IED and bury it at target area. Civilian digs up IED, takes to nearest MND(SE) post and attempts to sell IED. And so on.

30. UK Aid Worker. Show complete disregard for IED, fail to adhere to Foreign Office warnings on IED's, pay no attention to MND(SE) briefs on IED's and wonder what went wrong when their convoy gets destroyed by IED.

31. Security Contractor. Use innocent civilian children to test road ahead of patrol for IED's. When child finds IED, claim child is insurgent attempting a come-on and shoot child. And his family. And neighbours.

32. Private Contractor. Find themselves lured to Iraq by greed. Make more money in a week than some soldiers do in a month. Laugh at poorly paid soldiers being blown up by IEDs'. Expect MND(SE) to help when they get blown up by IED. Wonder why we don't respond.
 
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Proximo

Guest
The thread on ARRSE has come about because someone has asked the question: How does the Army get on with or currently perceive the RAF.

Yeah you're right Ping. Actually, I have received my 'orders' from a senior RAF officer, unsurprising when one considers where I work! I find it interesting that I now have 9 pages of comment about the RAF, but 9 comments about the Army view of itself! :) I will be using posts from this thread as well to ensure that your man can see it's not just the Army who can be misguided and petty - it's all about balance, y'see. Thanks everyone.
 
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