Anyother Trades going down the multi-skilling route?

[spanners]

Now that most techies have been multi-skilled (I say most, there are still a few courses left), what other trades could be multi-skilled, for example, Movers and Suppliers, or am I being too simplistic. What would the reason be for not multi-skilling certain trades?
As a techie, I’m not 100% convinced that multi-skilling has been as successful as the Airships wanted it to be for a variety of reasons, the utmost being that there is no incentive to complete your IP package. Where I work, Riggers still do Rigger work and Sumpys still carry out Sumpy work (It does seem a bit more successful in the AV world) and a quick trawl through the latest volunteers list, they still ask for legacy Airframe etc.
The Armours seem to cope as a single trade, I guess their trade sponsor put a better argument forward!

This is not a trade bashing post or a fishing trip and lets leave higher band stuff out of this, please.

 

[Sospan]

Can I add to this, if there is anybody in the know can you explain what will happen with single legacy tradesmen that have completed MSAT but unable to complete the X annotation due to the nature of their work ? Is there a time limit ? Will this effect future promotion etc etc ?

 

[line unicorn]

x annotation

x annotation

Can I add to this, if there is anybody in the know can you explain what will happen with single legacy tradesmen that have completed MSAT but unable to complete the X annotation due to the nature of their work ? Is there a time limit ? Will this effect future promotion etc etc ?

the lack of your x annotation won't hinder your promotion as you can do it at your new location same as if you are posted before you complete your ip just start again but you have to be MS hope that helps

 

[monobrow]

It used to be the case that the IP "timed out" and you'd have to take another trip to Cosford. This wa until they realised that some peoples employment means they will never in a month of Sundays be able to complete it, so as far as I know, you wait until the oppertunity arises then you complete your IP.

Or you could be pro-active and seek out a method of getting it sqaured away. (Time in engine bay for riggers, radar bay for leckies, etc, etc.)

 

[Sospan]

the lack of your x annotation won't hinder your promotion as you can do it at your new location same as if you are posted before you complete your ip just start again but you have to be MS hope that helps

Thanks, I was hoping this would be the case.

It used to be the case that the IP "timed out" and you'd have to take another trip to Cosford. This wa until they realised that some peoples employment means they will never in a month of Sundays be able to complete it, so as far as I know, you wait until the oppertunity arises then you complete your IP.

Or you could be pro-active and seek out a method of getting it sqaured away. (Time in engine bay for riggers, radar bay for leckies, etc, etc.)

Quite difficult for people based where there is no opportunity this, not to mention people on units without aircraft. Get detached somewhere purely for X500 purposes would be a nightmare without JAP auths etc.

P.s Mono, you spelling is atrocious, don't let ILLBW catch you!!!

 

[Geeza]

Now that most techies have been multi-skilled (I say most, there are still a few courses left), what other trades could be multi-skilled, for example, Movers and Suppliers, or am I being too simplistic. What would the reason be for not multi-skilling certain trades?
As a techie, I’m not 100% convinced that multi-skilling has been as successful as the Airships wanted it to be for a variety of reasons, the utmost being that there is no incentive to complete your IP package. Where I work, Riggers still do Rigger work and Sumpys still carry out Sumpy work (It does seem a bit more successful in the AV world) and a quick trawl through the latest volunteers list, they still ask for legacy Airframe etc.
The Armours seem to cope as a single trade, I guess their trade sponsor put a better argument forward!

This is not a trade bashing post or a fishing trip and lets leave higher band stuff out of this, please.

Aren't plumbers the only potential on-aircraft techies to have retained a proper techie induction scheme rather than the AMM heavies and fairies who have to do two years as a mech? If that's the case I would assume that the amourers cannot be assimilated.

 

[MontyPlumbs]

Aren't plumbers the only potential on-aircraft techies to have retained a proper techie induction scheme rather than the AMM heavies and fairies who have to do two years as a mech? If that's the case I would assume that the amourers cannot be assimilated.

It's more likely the trade will be another victim of cost cutting.I predict we have 5 years left. They will use the example of the FAA to say we don't need a dedicated weapons trade.

Ask any salty old sea dog and they'll tell you getting rid of dedicated Weapons tradesmen/women was a very bad idea (and they haven't even got that many aircraft!).

 

[dantura]

what other trades could be multi-skilled, for example, Movers and Suppliers, or am I being too simplistic.

Stackers have had Q's to do Muppet jobs for donkeys, albeit not the full whack. We have 2 Q's into the muppet world and often work side by side when in a Mobility job....shame it's not vice versa though.

Also, Slammers do a degree of Stacker jobs when on TSW, although they can't run a fuel site as they cannot be Fuel Managers (Stacker Q only!) and conversely they claim no-one else can drive C+E, as they aren't 'A' class drivers (even though so many guys have the Q now). Stackers also drive and refuel A/C in all other forms except C+E.

It's all about trade preservation I think and it wouldn't really take too much to completely x-train to be fully conversant in each others trade.

It's probably a matter of time before it happens, although we are all struggling to do our own jobs with the manpower we have now.

Good point though.

D

 

[enginesuck]

I was quite baffled when Armourers were not cross dressed at the same time as the heavy / lights, i was in a previous life part of a TTR team loading skyflash / winders as a sooty mech, although it was supervised by armourers it didnt seem too complicated ! (standing by for incoming!) Not wanting to de-value the Weapons trade, but their job could easily be encompassed into either heavy or lights (we would need more of us of course) Problem would be however how the armourers would cope becoming a heavy / light ?



p.s im already multi multi multi skilled, i can drive, cook, do my own admin, stack things nicely, i can run a bar the list goes on....





DT_Xtremez_06:

 

[MontyPlumbs]

Problem would be however how the armourers would cope becoming a heavy / light ?



The way I see it we are already trained in both mechanical and electrical engineering. With a proper training course, plus adequate OJT, I would feel confident as a mech or avionics technician. In the FAA, aircraft electrical now do the functions of a weapons technician.

Problem is, how do you account for EOD, small arms, explosive issue, ejection seat maintenance and the plethora of other tasks which the weapons trade encompasses?

 

[SgtScribbly]

there has been plenty of talk in the past about merging Pers Admin and Med Admin, though not so much recently

we have had it in the past as well with RAF Admin (the old discip trade), RAF Typists as well as Data Analysts being merged in to what used to be Pers Admin and is now called Pers (Support)

no doubt some will think they werent much different when they merged, but try telling that to Data Analysts that assimilated or some of the Pers Admins that ended up doing Stats jobs.

 

[John Lloyd]

Problem would be however how the armourers would cope becoming a heavy / light ?



The way I see it we are already trained in both mechanical and electrical engineering. With a proper training course, plus adequate OJT, I would feel confident as a mech or avionics technician. In the FAA, aircraft electrical now do the functions of a weapons technician.

Problem is, how do you account for EOD, small arms, explosive issue, ejection seat maintenance and the plethora of other tasks which the weapons trade encompasses?

And a bit of each has succesfully got me through every interview I have sat, definately 'Multi skilled'. (With a bit of mystique).

 

[spanners]

Also, Slammers do a degree of Stacker jobs when on TSW, although they can't run a fuel site as they cannot be Fuel Managers (Stacker Q only!) and conversely they claim no-one else can drive C+E, as they aren't 'A' class drivers (even though so many guys have the Q now). Stackers also drive and refuel A/C in all other forms except C+E.

D

Never thought of drivers and suppliers amalgamating, but surely a course could easily convert one to the other trade?

 

[MontyPlumbs]

Never thought of drivers and suppliers amalgamating, but surely a course could easily convert one to the other trade?

This could well apply to many trades. In this period of "stretch", we need to retain all the manning we can.not save "pennies" by getting everyone to do each others jobs.

I don't agree with multiskilling (it's been done purely to save money) but I would hazard a guess that it has made those leaving the services more 'employable' should they wish to enter engineering when they leave.

 

[SgtScribbly]

just out of interest what happens in civvy st with aircraft engineers? do they still have sooty and riggers etc or have they also gone down the route of a multi skilled workforce?

 

[MontyPlumbs]

just out of interest what happens in civvy st with aircraft engineers? do they still have sooty and riggers etc or have they also gone down the route of a multi skilled workforce?

As far as I know, they have mechanical and avionics, but I'm lead to believe there is considerable overlap between the trade boundaries.

 

[spanners]

MP,
I’m not a fan either. I think we both agree that the RAF’s reasoning behind the multi-skilling was purely to save money, maybe in 5-10 years it will work, but as of now, it’s not. The logic behind forcing guys and their Sqn’s to complete the training package beggars belief!
I’m on the last Rigger to Sooty course, yet I’ve got less than a year left to serve. To be honest, although I have no intention of staying in aviation, it will do my CV no harm, and yes, I have tried to get off the course, but after reading the procedure to get off the course, I thought sod it, I’ll do it.

 

[MontyPlumbs]

MP,
I’m not a fan either. I think we both agree that the RAF’s reasoning behind the multi-skilling was purely to save money, maybe in 5-10 years it will work, but as of now, it’s not. The logic behind forcing guys and their Sqn’s to complete the training package beggars belief!
I’m on the last Rigger to Sooty course, yet I’ve got less than a year left to serve. To be honest, although I have no intention of staying in aviation, but it will do my CV no harm, and yes, I have tried to get off the course, but after reading the procedure to get off the course, I thought sod it, I’ll do it.

I'm of the opinion it should have been brought in gradually. To be honest, it smacks of a) getting numbers down in the trades that have been assimilated and b) making it look like the trades are now fully manned (of course they will be when two trades have been merged into one!)

Like you say, I think it will probably work for the new AMMs coming in (who will know no other system). I think multiskilling has been with us for a long time (as Sgt Scribbly says) look how many trades now fall into "avionics!!

The final multiskilling will be swapping blues for barrack dress and prepping your voice to see who can shout the loudest I fear....

 

[Dirty Harry]

just out of interest what happens in civvy st with aircraft engineers? do they still have sooty and riggers etc or have they also gone down the route of a multi skilled workforce?

Dual trade has been around in Civil Aviation for years, the military has only just started to catch up. Most heavies were Airframe/Engine and the faries were Avionics/Electrics. The introduction of a new licensing system about 6 years ago moved the goalposts somewhat and the Electrical trade now falls under the domain of the heavies. Old school faries retained their Electrical privileges under grandfather rights.

I agree with some of the comments that multi-skilling is a cost saving exercise, however, it does offer a degree of flexibility and versatility. Civvy maintenance organisations do far more with a fraction of the manpower you would find on a typical RAF Sqn. That said, they get their monies worth out of the employees and you earn every single penny.

 

[SgtScribbly]

I'm a bit surprised it not embraced a bit more than it is then as surely you would want to be better aligned with what happens in civvy street