Addressing SACs as "Staff"

[Tango_Lima]

I'm not new to this idea, I've been doing it for years, but it only just occurred to me that I have no idea why.

Is it one of those things that nobody really knows the origins of (like Regt not wearing propellers), or is there a piece of paper somewhere that explains it?

Also, does it apply to all non-NCOs or is it just SACs? I've never heard someone call an LAC "Staff" but I've never really been in a position to.

And is it appropriate or inappropriate if the SAC in question isn't instructing or similar? ie: AC auggie mooching about recruiting stand is approached by LAC/SAC auggie from elsewhere doing same job. "Hello, Staff" or "Alright, mate"?

 

[shettie]

I've only ever used the term "Staff" to address someone who is either the same or lower rank but who is in a training position - i.e. A Regt Cpl carrying out CCS or GDT or whatever it's called these days when faced by a sedentary old Chief who pines for an SLR...

 

[Puma]

The only time I can think of that I had to call SAC's staff was when I was a recruit at Halton, I don't know the origins of it though.

 

[Spearmint]

The only time I've heard 'Staff' being bandied about would be during Phase 1 training for the regulars.

 

[ERT]

When at Halton, Speaking to someone below the rank of Cpl, you were to use "Staff".

We did it, as we were told to do it.

I would imagine that at Phase 1 training, standing up at a brief given by an SAC and saying "Hi Mate, Can i.." would probably not see you very well.

 

[Oberon305]

I vaguely recall addressing PTIs as 'staff' during Phase 2 at Cosford, although they may have been Trainee PTIs.

 

[spike7451]

Same here,the only time I've ever heard it used was by AC's on Phase 1 basic or trade & by ATC cadets on anual camp or when we went round the cadet detatchments servicing the gats.

 

[I look like Bruce Willis]

I'm not new to this idea, I've been doing it for years, but it only just occurred to me that I have no idea why.

Is it one of those things that nobody really knows the origins of (like Regt not wearing propellers), or is there a piece of paper somewhere that explains it?

Also, does it apply to all non-NCOs or is it just SACs? I've never heard someone call an LAC "Staff" but I've never really been in a position to.

And is it appropriate or inappropriate if the SAC in question isn't instructing or similar? ie: AC auggie mooching about recruiting stand is approached by LAC/SAC auggie from elsewhere doing same job. "Hello, Staff" or "Alright, mate"?

I like this, finally an airman who shows some respect. Personally I ensure all airman address me by my full rank or they face the full wrath of some MAA action.

 

[techie_tubby]

I like this, finally an airman who shows some respect. Personally I ensure all airman address me by my full rank or they face the full wrath of some MAA action.

Ahhh so you get your Airman to call you cnut as well? DT_Xtremez_30:

Only joking ILLBW but I shall present myself to you at 0800 for 252 action.

 

[Scouser812]

only time ive heard it is in phase 1 at halton and phase 2 at Shawbs with the TTF studes addressing the chefs in the kitchen as "staff" even though they were civvies.

suppose its like that at Halton to teach the recruits to respect the guys who've already been through the training they have (albeit less fluffy depending on length of service)

 

[Tango_Lima]

Cheers, folks...

So does anyone know the origins of it? Does it go all the way back to 1918 (or prior)?

Why "Staff"?

Is there an actual written down regulation that explains it?

Do the Army and RN do similar? "Staff" obviously meaning something completely different to most soldiers...

 

[Martin Blank]

When I worked at Tossford as permenant staff back in the 80's as a JT, every rank below JNCO was addressed as "Staff" by the phase 2 trainee's.
It was used to differentiate between trainee and perm "staff"
While not instructors various other trades interacted with trainees throughout their courses and were accordingly addressed with some respect higher than an "oy mate, where's the NAAFI?"
As to an official reg?

 

[spike7451]

Cheers, folks...

So does anyone know the origins of it? Does it go all the way back to 1918 (or prior)?

Why "Staff"?

Is there an actual written down regulation that explains it?

Do the Army and RN do similar? "Staff" obviously meaning something completely different to most soldiers...

I think maybe the same as us,but Staff is also a shortened way of adressing a Staff Sgt..

 

[Stevienics]

I do not recall addressing SAC's as staff as an Appo at Halton - then again we came into contact with so few. Cook, storeman or scribbly - they were just addressed minus any salutation whatsoever.

 

[Flybynight]

I do not recall addressing SAC's as staff as an Appo at Halton - then again we came into contact with so few. Cook, storeman or scribbly - they were just addressed minus any salutation whatsoever.

You're going back a bit when talking of being an appo. Like you, I don't recall any such general form of address during my early days at Bridgnorth (1960) and Shawbury. However, I did hear of it happening on unusual occasions: SAC probationary PTIs, SAC probationary snowdrops who'd remustered, etc. At Bridgnorth, all PTIs had the words STAFF INSTRUCTOR on the back of their tracksuit tops. I once read that between WW1 & WWII recruits at Uxbridge had to address permanent staff AC1s (propless) and LACs (no SACs until about 1950) as "Trained Airman". I watched a TV programme about Colchester about 15 years ago and all staff below WO were addressed as "Staff". At Shawbury, an attempt was made to amalgamate the old NAAFI and Corporals' Club as a 'Junior Ranks' Club', complete with white-coated, professional barman (instead of the more usual, p/t Mrs Snec from AMQs) calling people "Sir". Order was in complete charge of a 'Duty Club Member', an SAC or Cpl on an advanced course, who had to wear Best Blue and stay in the Club all evening, but no particular form of address was considered appropriate.

Propless rock apes? I've never heard of that, other than AC1s before 1964. (I've heard and seen many legless ones, especially overseas with duty-free booze.) If so, it must be either The Latest Thing - or maybe The First Thing on their khaki uniforms when they were founded. "Tout ca change, tout la meme chose."

DT_Xtremez_25:

 

[duffman]

Propless rock apes? I've never heard of that, other than AC1s before 1964. (I've heard and seen many legless ones, especially overseas with duty-free booze.) If so, it must be either The Latest Thing - or maybe The First Thing on their khaki uniforms when they were founded. "Tout ca change, tout la meme chose."

DT_Xtremez_25:

I wouldn't say latest thing, I don't remember ever seeing SAC rocks with rank slides. I wonder when they stopped wearing them, 80's?

 

[Flybynight]

I wouldn't say latest thing, I don't remember ever seeing SAC rocks with rank slides. I wonder when they stopped wearing them, 80's?

Probably...

 

[Barch]

Probably...

Rank slides for JT and below didn't come in until the 80s (83 I think) and the Rocks didn't wear them then.

 

[Dave-exfairy]

Propless rock apes? I've never heard of that, other than AC1s before 1964. (I've heard and seen many legless ones, especially overseas with duty-free booze.) If so, it must be either The Latest Thing - or maybe The First Thing on their khaki uniforms when they were founded. "Tout ca change, tout la meme chose."

DT_Xtremez_25:

Never seen an LAC/SAC rockape with anything other than RAF Regiment on their rank slides, no props, nada.

 

[techie_tubby]

I've seen blue SAC RAF Regt rank slides but I have only seen them on QCS so it might just be something unique to them.