A Real 1st World Problem. Bar Ettiquette

[rest have risen above me]

As a member of the WO and Sgts Mess one of the rules of etiquette that impressed upon me was that when ordering a round of drinks the request should be completed with "and one for yourself".

Now the issue is, does this literally mean have a double whiskey and coke on the rocks, take the actual price of a drink (obviously not a huge amount in the mess but average it at a pound) or take 50p and put it in the tips jar? What's the consensus out there and is it a tradition to keep up?

The reason being is that on a pay bar function the staff can rake it in carrying out the latter option above and take the p15$ on the pound option. It was a topic in the mess bar last night that wasn't settled so there's enough experience on here to get a broad view from 1945 to today.

 

[justintime129]

As a member of the WO and Sgts Mess one of the rules of etiquette that impressed upon me was that when ordering a round of drinks the request should be completed with "and one for yourself".

Now the issue is, does this literally mean have a double whiskey and coke on the rocks, take the actual price of a drink (obviously not a huge amount in the mess but average it at a pound) or take 50p and put it in the tips jar? What's the consensus out there and is it a tradition to keep up?

The reason being is that on a pay bar function the staff can rake it in carrying out the latter option above and take the p15$ on the pound option. It was a topic in the mess bar last night that wasn't settled so there's enough experience on here to get a broad view from 1945 to today.

Here in Liverpool it's normally ended with take your own and the normal etiquette is they take 20p. Doesn't seem much but it soon mounts up.

 

[muttywhitedog]

I was Mess Treasurer at Coltishall & Cottesmore, and the rule was that when invited to "take one yourself", bar staff would add 10p to the overall cost of the round. Generally if the round was, say £4.35, and then £4.45 with the tip, a fiver would be handed over and the barman told to keep the change.

At the end of the week, the bar would be balanced and all additional money (usually well over £200) would then be split - 33% to the bar staff, 33% to the bar "ups" (which covered breakages) and 33% to the Mess staff fund - after all, the cleaning doesn't get done on its own, and it was the memberships way of appreciating ALL the Mess staff. The bar staff used to moan about it, but they were very quickly put in their place by the Mess Manager.

I don't know how it runs now that ISS have gotten their fingers in the pie, but if the bar profit is being diverted (even in part) to their coffers rather than the greater good of the mess, then I would think very hard before tipping.

 

[vim_fuego]

I would expect them to take 20p and generally that's what happened...if I knew them well I might impress on them that it could actually mean a real drink but if it was a steward I wasn't familiar with then as above.

 

[Shinyscot]

I was Mess Treasurer at Coltishall & Cottesmore, and the rule was that when invited to "take one yourself", bar staff would add 10p to the overall cost of the round. Generally if the round was, say £4.35, and then £4.45 with the tip, a fiver would be handed over and the barman told to keep the change.

At the end of the week, the bar would be balanced and all additional money (usually well over £200) would then be split - 33% to the bar staff, 33% to the bar "ups" (which covered breakages) and 33% to the Mess staff fund - after all, the cleaning doesn't get done on its own, and it was the memberships way of appreciating ALL the Mess staff. The bar staff used to moan about it, but they were very quickly put in their place by the Mess Manager.

I don't know how it runs now that ISS have gotten their fingers in the pie, but if the bar profit is being diverted (even in part) to their coffers rather than the greater good of the mess, then I would think very hard before tipping.

What happened to the extra 1%?

 

[muttywhitedog]

Trust a scotsman to worry about every last penny!

 

[Digzster]

In previous years to ISS running the messes, a new SNCO to that mess either newly promoted or posted in would do a week on the bar . This enabled them to meet more of the other SNCO's quickly and new contacts established on the base.

The "one for yourself" was considered a courtesy to one mess member serving another. As others have stated, personally I took 10p on a round as this. If told to keep the change, then that was the decision of the buyer.

Personally, I never failed to make a welcome sum when on bar duty. At the week's end stock check I was always asked how much I took by the mess manager to which I replied "how much do I owe you"? If there was a major function that week and I kept the bar open longer, then that was between the mess members and myself.

 

[rest have risen above me]

In previous years to ISS running the messes, a new SNCO to that mess either newly promoted or posted in would do a week on the bar . This enabled them to meet more of the other SNCO's quickly and new contacts established on the base.

The "one for yourself" was considered a courtesy to one mess member serving another. As others have stated, personally I took 10p on a round as this. If told to keep the change, then that was the decision of the buyer.

Personally, I never failed to make a welcome sum when on bar duty. At the week's end stock check I was always asked how much I took by the mess manager to which I replied "how much do I owe you"? If there was a major function that week and I kept the bar open longer, then that was between the mess members and myself.

10p ??? Surely a farthing or tuppenny bit before decimalisation.DT_Xtremez_14:

 

[Barch]

10p ??? Surely a farthing or tuppenny bit before decimalisation.DT_Xtremez_14:

What the hell is a tupenny bit?

Do you mean a 'threepenny bit' aka thrupenny bit?

 

[Gord]

What the hell is a tupenny bit?

Do you mean a 'threepenny bit' aka thrupenny bit?

View attachment 13804

Er, I hazard a guess that you are among the younger members of our crew but way back when, we had

Farthings,
Half pennnies (ha'pennies 1/2d),
Pennies 1d
Two penny pieces (tuppenny bits 2d) which were like really fat pennies, though were pretty much out of use by my time
Three penny bits, 3d both silver which looked a bit like a sixpence and the one you showed above. The silver ones were just about out of use in my time but still placed in Christmas puddings so that the one who found it in his/her bit of pudding could feel as though he'd/she'd won something, unless of course he/she had bitten down hard on it which then meant a trip to the dentist.
Sixpenny bits, (tanners, 6d, sixpence)
Shillings, (1/- 1s, a bob)
Florins, (2/- 2s, a two bob bit)
Half crowns, or half sovereigns (2/6d, 2s 6d, half a dollar, dating from when there were four dollars to the pound)
Crowns or Sovereigns (5/-, 5s, dollar, something I saw only very rarely)
Guineas which were worth 21/- 21s, 21 shillings and were made of gold.
All other monies were made of paper.

 

[Barch]

You did well to see a pre-decimal two penny piece, As far as I am aware they were only minted for one year (1797) and were not used in circulation after 1860.

I can just remember seeing farthings but they were pulled from circulation when I was one year old.

 

[rest have risen above me]

What the hell is a tupenny bit?

Do you mean a 'threepenny bit' aka thrupenny bit?

View attachment 13804

Cheers Barch . I feel OK about my error as it demonstrates my ignorance on a subject that I'm too young to remember. DT_Xtremez_19:

Perhaps duty mess barman could be reintroduced got to be more interesting than orderly Sgt. Seriously, i wonder what era and place digster is talking about there. I certainly haven't seen that. And that takes us back to early to mid eighties.

 

[muttywhitedog]

If I remember correctly, It was going to get re-introduced about 3 years ago at Wittering by a SWO who had, shall we say, "interesting" ideas. It went down like a lead balloon, as nearly all SNCOs lived away from the base, and the thought of spending a week in the mess bar after doing a full day's work was pretty depressing. Those affected implied that if it were enforced the bar would shut on time, even on function nights, (as there was a massive culture towards "9 hours rest before duty" - as you'd expect with a base full of MTDs), and it died a death.

The SWO in question didn't last that long either before he moved on.

 

[Sniffer]

I did bar work along side my day job for about 8 years before I joined up and when I worked in normal boozers or the legion "take your own" was 10p but city centre bars/pubs was 20p. Unless of course they specifically stated take a drink in which case I would take the cost of a half of lager.

Never been a fan of sharing tips and I think the scenario given by mutty of barstaff only getting a third of their tips is terrible. As a punter on the other side of the bar it would actally stop me from tipping if I knew that it was going towards breakages and other staff.

 

[justintime129]

I did bar work along side my day job for about 8 years before I joined up and when I worked in normal boozers or the legion "take your own" was 10p but city centre bars/pubs was 20p. Unless of course they specifically stated take a drink in which case I would take the cost of a half of lager.

Never been a fan of sharing tips and I think the scenario given by mutty of barstaff only getting a third of their tips is terrible. As a punter on the other side of the bar it would actally stop me from tipping if I knew that it was going towards breakages and other staff.

There's a big debate at the moment about certain restaurant chains using tips to top up staff wages or taking a percentage if you give a tip when using a card.

 

[muttywhitedog]

Never been a fan of sharing tips and I think the scenario given by mutty of barstaff only getting a third of their tips is terrible. As a punter on the other side of the bar it would actally stop me from tipping if I knew that it was going towards breakages and other staff.

I see where you are coming from, but not everyone can do the bar in the Mess. Some stewards have to clean the place the following morning after a good session. My tip was always to the whole staff, not just the bod who handed me a bottle of becks and a packet of crisps - hardly a stressful job.

The additional advantages of splitting the money was that if a bottle of whiskey got broken or the till was down, the barman didn't have to cover the cost out of his tips - it was covered. Also, tips were classed as unearned income, and the 33% was subject to tax. The remaining 67% wasn't and thus went directly to the breakages and the Mess staff fund, which generally meant the entire Mess staff could have a free night out twice a year.

Bear in mind, that this was when the majority of the barstaff were SAC Stewards, earning the same as an SAC Medic or Adminer. They worked the bar as part of their normal shift. I never recall any SAC Clerk getting a tip for auctioning a leave pass on SAMA, or an SAC Medic receiving a tip for booking you an appointment with the SMO. Nor do I recall a lowly paid civil servant receiving a tip for doing their job in recent years.

Also, on functions, they got paid double time after midnight, which in 2005 was around £22 an hour - a summer ball would generally net an SAC Std around £160 - don't get me started on what the Mess manager got for being there!

 

[muttywhitedog]

There's a big debate at the moment about certain restaurant chains using tips to top up staff wages or taking a percentage if you give a tip when using a card.

Indeed there is, but the waiter is only the person who brings the food and clears the plate - I suspect someone else washes them up. The chef has cooked it to a standard that makes you want to tip, so why shouldn't the talented one in the team get a slice of the tip?

I take it by your footer, that you will agree?

 

[rest have risen above me]

My son works in a pub/restaurant in the icy north. They work a sharing system for food service and then when that's finished they are every man for themselves minus a contribution to the staff night out. It seems to keep everyone happy as the kitchen staff get a cut but aren't taking off the staff that are there til 0300. They've had enough to hire a coach to the nearest big town and because it's a bit of a chain pub the company ships in staff from other pubs on that night so that they can all go. He reckons nearest pound or 50p standard.

 

[justintime129]

Indeed there is, but the waiter is only the person who brings the food and clears the plate - I suspect someone else washes them up. The chef has cooked it to a standard that makes you want to tip, so why shouldn't the talented one in the team get a slice of the tip?

I take it by your footer, that you will agree ?

I've never looked at it that way. You only see the front of house staff.

 

[stereolab]

I dealt with a lot of Mess staff over the years, and would say that the ones who ran the bars in both Messes pocketed a lot of extra cash over the years, for doing what they were being paid to do. Going back to the 70s and 80s here. They were some of the happiest airmen I knew.

Personally I hated the week on Mess bar duty, as a non-smoker, it was a very hard week.