A new Pay Spine?

[spanners]

It’s been mentioned on the Pay Rise thread that if nurses can have a new Pay Spine, then why can’t we in TG1, so I thought I’d start a new thread on the subject.
1st off, well done to the nurses, in my opinion, well deserved and not before time.
Now, back to TG1 getting our own pay spine, (and other Techies), perhaps the answer is our lords and master’s do not want us to have one, for many reasons, such as, are we really that undermanned as far as they are concerned, maybe they consider the retention problem confined to other trades, we are not as valued as we think we are or perhaps with the new blood coming through, there is no problem at all.
I for one, am not holding my breath for a new pay spine, especially not with the limited time I have left in the RAF, but maybe today’s announcement will give hope to those staying in.

 

[The Masked Geek]

First of all, congratulations nurses.



Now, how do we get ourselves as techies onto nurses pay?

 

[Swingwinger]

This topic has been brought up many times before. Never going to happen. Dont get me wrong, id love more pay,but us techies will just have to live with it.

 

[The Masked Geek]

This topic has been brought up many times before.

Not wrapped up in the context of nurses getting their own pay spine it hasn't.

 

[Swingwinger]

Not wrapped up in the context of nurses getting their own pay spine it hasn't.

No,you are correct but I meant the subject of techies getting their own pay spine.

 

[metimmee]

Firstly - congratulations to the nurses for their new pay spine.

A couple of problems with comparing ourselves to nurses. Firstly, they have
a trade where it is more straight forward than most to compare with
their civillian counterparts. Also, a significant number of Service nurses work
alongside civillians doing the same job. That must be corrosive in the work place,
again severely impacting retention.

The other issue are the figures that led to the pay spine being established. We
are (fortunately) nowhere near as critically manned as they are. Things will have
to get much worse in my opinion...like closure and rationalisation of squadrons
(solely because of manning issues, rather than cost saving & drawdown) before any move
toward this for TG1 and other technical trades.

 

[bombdasand]

oh well, we will just have to take our 2.8% in April, if JPA dont mess up the pay.

Thing is this arguement will go on and on and on, but no one has the balls to do anything about it.

we cant strike.
we cant leave (personal preferences obviously - credit crunch)
we cant slack off

the government have us by the balls at the minute, and like i said, they can say and do to us what they want and we wont/cant do anything about it.

maybe next year ey

 

[Odie]

Good news for the nurses. DT_Xtremez_30:

One thing that creating the new pay spine for the nurses shows is, if there's a will, there's a way to do it even within the supposed limitations of the Pay 2000 scheme.

 

[mad_collie]

The evidence suggests that REAL techies are in TG15...

Sorry!

NAT has a point. Somebody has finally decided that people are more important than aircraft.

 

[rest have risen above me]

It’s been mentioned on the Pay Rise thread that if nurses can have a new Pay Spine, then why can’t we in TG1, so I thought I’d start a new thread on the subject.
1st off, well done to the nurses, in my opinion, well deserved and not before time.
Now, back to TG1 getting our own pay spine, (and other Techies), perhaps the answer is our lords and master’s do not want us to have one, for many reasons, such as, are we really that undermanned as far as they are concerned, maybe they consider the retention problem confined to other trades, we are not as valued as we think we are or perhaps with the new blood coming through, there is no problem at all.
I for one, am not holding my breath for a new pay spine, especially not with the limited time I have left in the RAF, but maybe today’s announcement will give hope to those staying in.

Have you not noticed a gaping hole in experienced Cpls recently? That's where we're going to suffer for a while I think.

 

[are u looking at me]

Unfortunately, I think that TG1 has zero chance of being placed on a seperate pay spine despite Senior Officer's being concerned at the fragility of morale and the perceived current retention problem.

I'm not sure of the current number of military nurses but I am sure that it is a good deal smaller than the number of TG1, REME aircraft fitters and FAA aircraft techies. Hence the ability to create a seperate pay spine for that trade/specialisation. No doubt the Nurses trade sponsor is a Nurse of some description.

Additionally, our trade sponsor will be some no mark Sqn Ldr EngO who has no real interest in his troops getting a substantial hike in pay whilst he sits on the same rate as OC chips or paper clips. There is also the fact that what jobs are they to compare to in civvy street - aircraft mechanic, Aircraft ground handler or Licenced Engineer. There will be others who will tell you that a liney is no where near the job spec of a LE and we're not worth the money they are on. You can't compare the money offered off-shore because that is not like for like.

Within the trade there is a great feeling that we are under-paid in comparison to other comparable technicians because so many of us know what has been offered to colleagues and former colleagues when they become so hacked off with the current state of the RAF.

What's the answer?

No doubt CIS(T) techs or whatever will create a simulation that will be able to take our place after all they are the future. Creating algorithms to find faults not so hot when on det and trying to e-mail all the gen back to Cons so that the jet can fly. Computerisation is the future or have we forgotten about EMP and all that cold war bobbins.

I'll stick to half split and engineering knowledge thanks.

 

[techie_tubby]

one point you may or may not be aware of, the nurses pay isn't just generated by the MOD, they have to be part of the Agenda for Change and the NHS pay scales. It's far easier for the MOD to just create a seperate pay scale for the nurses then to adjust the pay for them on their current pay band.

 

[AceRimmer]

The problem you will find is that if you try and separate "techies" from everyone else, you get a massive sense of resentment again. Nurses are a completely different kettle of fish in that they need to be comparable with their civvy counterparts, but yet they also deploy regularly and see a number of not very nice wounds in the process. Once you turn round and give "techies" thier own pay band, everyone else starts clamouring for one.

To use an example here, "techies" get thier own new pay band, uber high level pay, to reflect the fact that they fix aircraft and keep and air force an airforce. "Techies" sit back, and think job done, happy days, keep the gravy boat coming, recruitment for the trade soars. Recruitment for other trades drys up, as no one wants to be on the peasants pay, waiting list for "techies" goes through the roof. No promotion, so no real increase in pay after a couple of years, as the trade is clogged.

Ok, slightly exagerated, but you get the point. The problem i find is that techies seem to have this idea that because they are techies, they can do someone elses job automatically, with a bit of training. Might read true for some sections (Admin DT_Xtremez_14, but there are so many more where its just not compatible. It takes a certain mindset to do a job, hence why the aptitude tests came in. It means we get people who can actually do a job in INT, not just look at things and have no idea whats going on. Why we have people who are mechanically minded fixing engines, not trying to sort out pay.

In closing (and i didnt want this to be trade bashing either), there is potential for a new spine. I cant see it happening as the Govt wouldnt be able to afford it, and it would cause too much infighting in the forces when really, especially at the moment, we need to be pulling together.

Anyway, heres to our payrise! Hoorah!

 

[metimmee]

one point you may or may not be aware of, the nurses pay isn't just generated by the MOD, they have to be part of the Agenda for Change and the NHS pay scales. It's far easier for the MOD to just create a seperate pay scale for the nurses then to adjust the pay for them on their current pay band.

Private sector nurses aren't part of agenda for change. This is purely a retention issue and the peculiarity of side-by-side working with their civilian equivalent. Also, if what you said was true, commissioned and non-commissioned would be part of the same spine.

 

[techie_tubby]

Private sector nurses aren't part of agenda for change. This is purely a retention issue and the peculiarity of side-by-side working with their civilian equivalent. Also, if what you said was true, commissioned and non-commissioned would be part of the same spine.

Course they are. the Agenda forchange affects all Nurses, Doctors and anyone that works in a hospital, dental surgery, optician, nursing home etc etc.

 

[metimmee]

Course they are. the Agenda forchange affects all Nurses, Doctors and anyone that works in a hospital, dental surgery, optician, nursing home etc etc.

Sorry, its only for NHS nurses and allied professionals (radiographers, physios, porters, paramedics etc). Some doctors surgeries may *choose* to offer their nursing staff the same pay but its optional. Even if they do, its equivalent pay - not Agenda for Change.

Doctors have entirely their own pay scheme and conditions.

Nurses that dont work for the NHS, like the private sector aren't included. Some private sector jobs pay very well indeed. My sister in-law worked for P&O as a staff nurse and earned as much in bonuses as she did her very good basic salary - as an aside, the ships doctor is often the wealthiest member of the crew due to their bonus scheme (or should I say, kick-backs from insurance).

My original point was, that just because youre on the NMC Register as a staff nurse, doesnt mean that you get paid Agenda for Change wages. Clearly though, unless they approach or exceed parity they will keep haemoraging (pardon the pun) staff to the NHS.

 

[Stuey Griffin]

People are over-looking one important point with techies and that is there is a civilian equivalent to our job. Look at Marhma where British wAste of spacE is employing ex-service techies, giving them no extra training and starting them on a salery of £27,000 pa (average).

Now to get that as a techie you need to have served approx 6 years if not a bit more (level 9). So add the "X Factor" to that and you'll find that a techie should start on £30,500 basic pay. Now as much as I'd love to get that kind of pay hike, being a level 9 techie I know it'll never bloody well happen as even though were now pulling out of Iraq (freeing up lots and lots of taxpayers money) we will never get that increase as it would cripple the defence budget.

So all in all, well done to the nurses for getting the tight winkers to pay up and give you a well deserved pay increase. But there are other people out there who deserve it due to the responsibility of their respective trades.

(Just to make it clear to anyone who may feel the need to ask who I'm talking about TECHIES!!!! not adminers or PTI's or any other shiny arris trade that requires zero, or very little, intelligence and has stupidly fast promotion)

I won't say rant over as it never will be until us techies get the pay we deserve, and it stays that way without every other mf ending up on our pay band again!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

DT_Xtremez_44:

Disgruntled techie out!

 

[techie_tubby]

How come when ever a debate starts about pay it always decends into techies pay pmsl.

 

[metimmee]

People are over-looking one important point with techies and that is there is a civilian equivalent to our job. Look at Marhma where British wAste of spacE is employing ex-service techies, giving them no extra training and starting them on a salery of £27,000 pa (average).

Now to get that as a techie you need to have served approx 6 years if not a bit more (level 9). So add the "X Factor" to that and you'll find that a techie should start on £30,500 basic pay. Now as much as I'd love to get that kind of pay hike, being a level 9 techie I know it'll never bloody well happen as even though were now pulling out of Iraq (freeing up lots and lots of taxpayers money) we will never get that increase as it would cripple the defence budget.

So all in all, well done to the nurses for getting the tight winkers to pay up and give you a well deserved pay increase. But there are other people out there who deserve it due to the responsibility of their respective trades.

(Just to make it clear to anyone who may feel the need to ask who I'm talking about TECHIES!!!! not adminers or PTI's or any other shiny arris trade that requires zero, or very little, intelligence and has stupidly fast promotion)

I won't say rant over as it never will be until us techies get the pay we deserve, and it stays that way without every other mf ending up on our pay band again!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

DT_Xtremez_44:

Disgruntled techie out!

Taking a broad view across the aircraft and other technical trades, there are indeed parallels and loads of examples of folk who have bettered their Service salary. The difference with nurses is that their whole trade is directly comparable, right down to their training.

 

[The Masked Geek]

How come when ever a debate starts about pay it always decends into techies pay pmsl.

It's in the techie forum you tit.