4 Sqn's Emblem

[Spearmint]

As in the half red, half black sun with the yellow flash through it. It was told to me once that it's to represent the cowardice shown by the Aircrew in WW1 on retreat from Italy. Not only abandoning the ground crew but strafing the Airfield with their munitions to help prevent equipment and manpower falling into the enemies clutches.

Apparently the Red colour is for the blood spilt, the black to represent a dark day in the Squadrons history and the flash of yellow for the cowardice shown.

It also meant that the Squadron was barred from the UK till the 80's?

I ask the more enlightened of our Goaters, is this correct?

 

[MontyPlumbs]

AFAIK, that information is apocryphal at best. The yellow flash is officially used to symbolise the link with the Army, as 4 squadron was an AC (Army Co-operation) squadron at it's inception. The symbol behind it is a stylised sun split in two by the flash.

 

[steve_k243]

Look at how many squadrons have or have had yellow on their emblems.

What was most likely an unavoidable event in many cases, seems to be another myth nowadays. Try piling loads of blokes onto Hurricanes as the Germans/Japs were advancing through France/Burma. Of course it would be different in the case of some bombers, but surely they wouldn't be as close to the front.

As for 4 sqn I have just found this.

A sun in splendour divided per bend by a flash of lightning - approved by HRH King Edward VIII in May 1936. The red and black segmented sun suggests round-the-clock operations, while the lightning flash is a reference to the unit's early use of wireless telephony for artillery co-operation.

 

[MontyPlumbs]

Echo, echo....DT_Xtremez_14:DT_Xtremez_14:

 

[Spearmint]

Excellent cheers for clearing that one up guys. DT_Xtremez_19:

 

[Inevertouchedit]

As in the half red, half black sun with the yellow flash through it. It was told to me once that it's to represent the cowardice shown by the Aircrew in WW1 on retreat from Italy. Not only abandoning the ground crew but strafing the Airfield with their munitions to help prevent equipment and manpower falling into the enemies clutches.

Apparently the Red colour is for the blood spilt, the black to represent a dark day in the Squadrons history and the flash of yellow for the cowardice shown.

It also meant that the Squadron was barred from the UK till the 80's?

I ask the more enlightened of our Goaters, is this correct?

As an ex-3F man on the other side of the runway at Gutersloh - I much prefer this version !!

 

[Gazza260]

Our colours do not run!

History is history...Today is what counts

 

[Tashy_Man]

Our colours do not run!

History is history...Today is what counts

What a rubbish statement....so you dont care what has happened EVER in the past ?

Crack on.....................DT_Xtremez_09:

 

[Talk Wrench]

What a rubbish statement....so you dont care what has happened EVER in the past ?

Crack on.....................DT_Xtremez_09:

Exactly.

Those who choose to ignore the past, do so at their own peril.

As for Four Squadron though, they all thought that they were Jedi knights!!

May the "Fource" be with you DT_Xtremez_42:DT_Xtremez_34:

TW

 

[St Omer]

I was on 4 at Wilders and Gut and never heard that cowardice story. We just worked damn hard and had a good time, just like 3 and twenty.

 

[252]

heard the cowardice story way back in 80,somebody must have thought it up.

Certainly has some longevity.

 

[passedoverat46]

I remember hearing this when I was on 4 at Gut in the 80s. They said it was WW2 on the way to Dunkirk though.....

 

[Scouser812]

As for Four Squadron though, they all thought that they were Jedi knights!!

Unluckily for them the Mighty One adopted the 'Jedi' callsigns and named their Herrick 08 tour after it

 

[MAINJAFAD]

I remember hearing this when I was on 4 at Gut in the 80s. They said it was WW2 on the way to Dunkirk though.....

Heard the story as told in Post 1 off an Air radar tech back in 87, however seeing that the squadron most likely got the badge in the mid 1930's, the chances of the event happening in France in 1940 as stated above are non existent. Anyhow the 'Survival Scramble' was part and parcel of the RAF for most of its history...Don't let the aircraft be destroyed on the ground, and by the way, ground crew, get away any way you can, good luck and you’re on your own!!!

This same event has also been claimed to have done by 6 and 8 Sqn's in their histories, and been claimed to be the reason that both of the squadrons have spent a very large chunk of their existence based overseas. A post on an other forum however put an interesting spin on the topic in that when the draw down of the RAF happened post WWI, Trenchard had the squadron's he liked sent overseas as they were required to do the air control mission over the bits of empire that were giving us problems, thus stopping them from being disbanded!!!

 

[morse1001]

33 Sqdn had a tradition that on a day in July, aircrew would wear their hats backwards. This was in rememberance of the then pilots desertting the groundcrew on Crete.

 

[Obi Wan]

As an ex-3F man on the other side of the runway at Gutersloh - I much prefer this version !!

Also an ex 3F man 83-86. (as we used to say there is no f in four) I was always told it was due to cowardice hence the yellow flash but I will go along Inevertouchedit it does sound a more realistic version. DT_Xtremez_30:

 

[MAINJAFAD]

33 Sqdn had a tradition that on a day in July, aircrew would wear their hats backwards. This was in rememberance of the then pilots desertting the groundcrew on Crete.

Bollocks, 33 Sqn's aircrew do have such a tradition on Crete Day as they call it, but it's more of a mark of respect to the fighting prowess of the Squadron's Erk's than a mark of shame. As a flying squadron, it had pretty much been wiped out in the days leading up to the German invasion anyway and though the remaining RAF fighters on the island were withdrawn the day before the airborne assault, the total number of fighter aircraft flown out were 7 from what had been orignally 3 squadrons worth plus some replacements (and only 3 of the aircraft were Hurricanes, the type operated by the squadron)!!!! A sizeable party of the squadron's ground crew had also been evacuated by Sunderland flying boat. The Squadron CO and 5 of the pilots stayed with the remaining groundcrew who were attached to the army as infantry and they gave a very good account of themselves in the fighting on the airfield at Maleme and Hill 107, though a number of the Squadron personnel were killed or wounded in Blue on Blue incidents due to the their RAF uniforms looking like the uniforms of the German paratroopers. In total about 60 of the squadron personnel were killed or taken prisonner, including the CO (who was badly wounded) and the 5 pilots, though the CO did later successfully escape and make it to Turkey.

 

[Teh Wal]

.... Anyhow the 'Survival Scramble' was part and parcel of the RAF for most of its history...Don't let the aircraft be destroyed on the ground, and by the way, ground crew, get away any way you can, good luck and you’re on your own!!...

Very true, my great-uncle Charlie was one of the groundcrew who got "left behind" when the aircraft buggered off from France in May 1940. He and the rest of the squadron groundcrew headed west with the Jerries nipping at their heels and eventually got out via one of the Atlantic ports. I can't remember which squadron it was that he was on but it must have been equipped with Hampdens orBattles or something similar as apparently there was limited room for the groundcrew but the squadron CO dictated that no groundcrew were to be evacuated on the aircraft. The CO was a scot who became an MP following the war, whenever he appeared on TV my great-uncle would always swear and pass comment on him... and not in a positive manner!

 

[morse1001]

Bollocks, 33 Sqn's aircrew do have such a tradition on Crete Day as they call it

if you want I shall PM the name the of 33 Nav who gave me that information, you can take it up with him. However, i know who I believe.

More to the point, i would be most grateful, if you would provide the source of your other information.

 

[MAINJAFAD]

Bollocks, 33 Sqn's aircrew do have such a tradition on Crete Day as they call it

if you want I shall PM the name the of 33 Nav who gave me that information, you can take it up with him. However, i know who I believe.

More to the point, i would be most grateful, if you would provide the source of your other information.

This guy who runs this site seems to have done his research a bit better than your Javelin or Bloodhound Navigator.