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A question from an “Old Rigger”.

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Captain Slog

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gemarriott said:
I'll try and answer this as sensibly as possible knowing the Captain asked the question that way. Having been involved in the fit of 11 seats that were used successfully and knowing the pain of losing a crew when they failed to bang out I have some experience of the emotions involved. Starting with the successful ejections, there is almost always a period between hearing the kite has gone in and the news the crew are safe, in that period of time diaries are checked, whoever fitted the seats gets a feeling deep in the pit of the stomach that doesn't go away until you hear the seat worked as advertised then there is an immense release of tension, When however the news is bad the feeling is awful, every connection, every bit of wirelocking, every cartridge is refitted in your mind a thousand time a day till you are convinced the crew died because you fcuked up. It is only when the board of enquiry declares "no attempt to eject" or no "chance to eject" that the poor sods who fitted the seat actually get a decent night's sleep again. I don't know if that justifies a crate from a grateful crew or not in most peoples minds buut it certainly does in mine.

Good reply Gem. I fully understand the feeling of what it is like to see the Sengo rush into Rects Control, grab a F700 and lock it into the safe, it happened to me several times as well. In fact, if memory serves me well (something it does not always do these days) I believe you and I were on a certain Buccaneer squadron in Germany in the 70’s when we lost a Bucc while on approach to Honington. The reason it had to divert was given to us by the Line Controller 30 minutes after it had crashed; apparently it was running out of fuel. That’s when my sphincter muscle kicked into overdrive as I had BF’d and refuelled it prior to its last flight! Fortunately the crew ejected safely, was that one of your 11?

The later Board of enquiry revealed that the crew has a fuel transfer problem and not a fuel shortage problem which forced them to divert and the crash was caused by a spurious tailplane actuator runaway – so not my fault and as you said the there was “an immense release of tension”. I believe the crew were forthcoming to the Armourers with the customary crate but all I got was looks of suspicion until the Board of Enquiry result came out and even then no-one asked how I felt (no Human Factors in those days).

I am all for tradition in the RAF, unfortunately it seem to be the modern way to get rid of or hide it these days. So if the tradition remains then who am I to argue? However, the next time a crew has a successful ejection and they head off to Asda to get the slabs in, I wonder if they might like to think about spreading the beers around, you never know it might become a tradition.

PS: Apologies to the Safety equippers – your right, an ejection seat without a parachute is about as much us as a chocolate fireguard.
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gemarriott

Guest
Dead right Capt they were 2 of the 11.

I was also on the fit of the back seater that banged out over the North Seabecause he was a bit scared of the way the Jockey was throwing his ride about which accounts for the odd number of ejections I was involved in:pDT_Xtremez_42:


Back to the beer front, on that squadron in Germany we always let anyone have a beer if they came in the armoury when we were having a beercall, for some reason though not many ever interrupted us:pDT_Xtremez_14:
 
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LoneRanger

LAC
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It's not just the Squadron Armourers who get beer from the aircrew after successful ejections, they also usually give some to the guys in the Seat Bay who serviced the seats. But apart from being grateful that the seat worked as advertised most seat bays make little plaques or momentoes of the incident to give to the crew.
No beer, no plaque, can also be a bit of peer pressure in the Officers Mess when they keep asking where their plaque is so it can be displayed over the bar until they are posted, another tradition, don't you just love em!
 
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grumpyoldb

Guest
If it helps to keep the plumbers sedated, fair do's.................. :pDT_Xtremez_14:
 
vim_fuego

vim_fuego

Hung Like a Baboon.
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I've never subscribed to this special needs status that some armourers seem to demand...When a jet goes in everyone who's touched it starts to question themselves...If it had gone due to a control restriction everyone from the last tradesmen to work on it down to the tool stores bod get a feeling in their gut...If the engine self-destructs the person who looked down the intake on the BF to the blokes in the bay who built accepted it are in the frame until further invest proves otherwise...Just because the seat leaves the airframe means it's acted as advertised so the headline should be 'tradesman does job'...

One fight one team....
 
D

Downsizer

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Vim_Fuego said:
I've never subscribed to this special needs status that some armourers seem to demand...When a jet goes in everyone who's touched it starts to question themselves...If it had gone due to a control restriction everyone from the last tradesmen to work on it down to the tool stores bod get a feeling in their gut...If the engine self-destructs the person who looked down the intake on the BF to the blokes in the bay who built accepted it are in the frame until further invest proves otherwise...Just because the seat leaves the airframe means it's acted as advertised so the headline should be 'tradesman does job'...

One fight one team....
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2/10, must try harder...:pDT_Xtremez_30:
 
wobbly

wobbly

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gemarriott said:
I'll try and answer this as sensibly as possible knowing the Captain asked the question that way. Having been involved in the fit of 11 seats that were used successfully and knowing the pain of losing a crew when they failed to bang out I have some experience of the emotions involved. Starting with the successful ejections, there is almost always a period between hearing the kite has gone in and the news the crew are safe, in that period of time diaries are checked, whoever fitted the seats gets a feeling deep in the pit of the stomach that doesn't go away until you hear the seat worked as advertised then there is an immense release of tension, When however the news is bad the feeling is awful, every connection, every bit of wirelocking, every cartridge is refitted in your mind a thousand time a day till you are convinced the crew died because you fcuked up. It is only when the board of enquiry declares "no attempt to eject" or no "chance to eject" that the poor sods who fitted the seat actually get a decent night's sleep again. I don't know if that justifies a crate from a grateful crew or not in most peoples minds buut it certainly does in mine.

Of course being god's children we always deserve the "special" thank yous we get and of course our beer and if you begrudge the armourer his beer it will still taste the same anyway:pDT_Xtremez_14:
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And this is the very reason that an Admin Clerk shouldn't be on the same pay as you :) [/wooden_Spooooooon] :) by the way :pDT_Xtremez_32:

Only speshul peepul get songs ritten abowt them. Never forget that :)

A - Iymanarmurer ...............
 
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pan-trash

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I'm not going to get into the argument about whether the plumbers deserve it or not, ( they always seem to get a special thanks for any job ;) )but If I was a jockey and was looking at the ground rushing up rather quickly, I'd want to say a big thanks to anyone, who had anything to do with any kit that helped save my life.

And I'm a fairy...
 
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shakie

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Robin Nedwell

Robin Nedwell

Stevienics said:
I am pretty sure that when Robin Nedwell (?) of "Doctor in the House" fame crashed his Harrier back in the 70's, he blamed it all no a multitude of factors, not least the steward ****ing him off by not bringing him his eggs the way he liked them - at least thats what the film depicted. Off Topic
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Was that the one where he got stuck behind the runway sweeper on the taxi way?
What an all time classic
 
1

185

Sergeant
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pan-trash said:
I'm not going to get into the argument about whether the plumbers deserve it or not, ( they always seem to get a special thanks for any job ;) )but If I was a jockey and was looking at the ground rushing up rather quickly, I'd want to say a big thanks to anyone, who had anything to do with any kit that helped save my life.

And I'm a fairy...
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if i was a jockey id want the ground to get smaller. dos that mean a big thank you to the sumpeys?
 
MontyPlumbs

MontyPlumbs

Squadron Cock
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Guys, our Riggers get a crate for replacing a tyre after the seat-stick interface forgot to select anti-skid!!

Is a crate all you ancillaries have to get jealous about? :pDT_Xtremez_14::pDT_Xtremez_14:
 
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Shugster

Warrant Officer
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So as this thread has been dug up about armourers getting a crate for doing their job, did the armourers buy beer for the aircrew after the bang seat fell out of a Tonka on a test flight from Marham killing the Nav?
 
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gemarriott

Guest
Shugster said:
So as this thread has been dug up about armourers getting a crate for doing their job, did the armourers buy beer for the aircrew after the bang seat fell out of a Tonka on a test flight from Marham killing the Nav?
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I'm certain that they would have loved to, however the cause of that accident has never been fully confirmed. A failure of the top latch assembly remains the most likely cause but there is a possibility that 3 different plumbers failed to spot the same mistake on the fit but like many I remain sceptical.

However I am sure the armourers enjoyed the beer from Langworthy's first 2 sqdn ejection which was caused by a rigger failing to fit a split pin to an aileron linkage and not spotted in vitals or indies and the Bruggen plumbers enjoyed their beer after riggers failed to lock the wing down and a 17 sqdn (I think) kite did a bruggen salute,

Put your own house in order before you start throwing stones.
 
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