Menezes Inquest

[firestorm]

There's something that puzzles me about this case.
If the Met were certain enough they'd got their man. Then why in the previous 45 mins of tracking him didn't they intercept him. Instead they let what at they thought to be a suicide tube bomber to get onto the tube.

 

[chiprafp]

Personally I will let the inquest decide as they have access to ALL the facts and evidence and not just the press cuttings.

 

[TrenchardsLoveSock]

Personally I will let the inquest decide as they have access to ALL the facts and evidence and not just the press cuttings.

Well said. Somehow I managed to let my disgust at a few posts on here draw me into arguing about the case.

 

[Verkramp]

Congratulations on making the most offensive post in a bloody shameful thread, knob.

Thanks and I didn't even have to try hard.

What bedwetters like you can't seem to grasp is that whatever you say, however much you try and twist things the fact is had he left the country when he should have he would NOT have got zapped.

A chain of events were set off by a bunch of murdering muslim fanatics, the end result was he got killed.

The fault lies with the muslim fanatics, mistakes within the security forces AND menzes himself.

 

[Talk Wrench]

The fault lies with the muslim fanatics, mistakes within the security forces AND menzes himself.

Never let the facts get in the way eh!

 

[TrenchardsLoveSock]

Thanks and I didn't even have to try hard.

What bedwetters like you can't seem to grasp is that whatever you say, however much you try and twist things the fact is had he left the country when he should have he would NOT have got zapped.

A chain of events were set off by a bunch of murdering muslim fanatics, the end result was he got killed.

The fault lies with the muslim fanatics, mistakes within the security forces AND menzes himself.

What small-minded bigots like you can't seem to grasp is that whatever you say, however much you try and ignore things the fact is somebody who was not a terrorist got 7 rounds pumped into his head.

By your logic, every single serviceman who comes home in a box deserves what they get because the fact is had they walked past the CIO and gone to the dole office they would NOT have got into a firefight with the Taliban.

I'm just stunned that so many people on here fail to give a toss because it happened to Jean Charles De Menezes, Brazillian illegal immigrant. Would you all be NFI if it was John Smith, gainfully employed, red-blooded Brit?

How is this different from the blue-on-blue incidents that have you all whipped up into an anti-Spam frenzy, baying for blood and justice?

 

[Verkramp]

What small-minded bigots like you can't seem to grasp is that whatever you say, however much you try and ignore things the fact is somebody who was not a terrorist got 7 rounds pumped into his head.

You just can't grasp the simple FACT that if he had left he would not of been shot. How hard a concept is that ?

You have avoided that fact by asking a different question....... again.

I haven't said he deserved to be killed or that servicemen and women deserve to have been killed, thats you twisting words to obscure things.

If you don't know how this is different from blue on blue you must be retarded in some way.

Unlike you I don't care what race or colour he was, he was here illegally.

If you do something illegal you can't whine when things go tits up.

You will never be in the position where you have to make a decision whether to shoot or not because you're one of those gutless wimps that expect others to do it but you schimff, moan and tick at people who do.Thank God we have real brave men and women in the security forces.

I'll not bother answering any of your other posts in the topic you really are not worth the time and you bore me.

have a nice day.

 

[TrenchardsLoveSock]

You just can't grasp the simple FACT that if he had left he would not of been shot. How hard a concept is that ?

You have avoided that fact by asking a different question....... again.

I haven't said he deserved to be killed or that servicemen and women deserve to have been killed, thats you twisting words to obscure things.

If you don't know how this is different from blue on blue you must be retarded in some way. Why is it different? The target wasn't correctly identified, the order given was deemed to be correct by those who made it at the time. The wrong people died
Unlike you I don't care what race or colour he was, he was here illegally.

If you do something illegal you can't whine when things go tits up.

You will never be in the position where you have to make a decision whether to shoot or not because you're one of those gutless wimps that expect others to do it but you schimff, moan and tick at people who do.Thank God we have real brave men and women in the security forces.

I'll not bother answering any of your other posts in the topic you really are not worth the time and you bore me.

have a nice day.

And you can't grasp the fact that a post like this:

He's was only innocent of not having a bomb. He was guilty of being in this country/working/claiming benefits illegaly.

I think shooting illegals sends a strong message out to the 100,s of 1000's, of other illegal parasitic scrounging trash.

makes you a ****.

 

[Realist78]

You just can't grasp the simple FACT that if he had left he would not of been shot. How hard a concept is that ?

You have avoided that fact by asking a different question....... again.

I haven't said he deserved to be killed or that servicemen and women deserve to have been killed, thats you twisting words to obscure things.

If you don't know how this is different from blue on blue you must be retarded in some way.

Unlike you I don't care what race or colour he was, he was here illegally.

If you do something illegal you can't whine when things go tits up.

You will never be in the position where you have to make a decision whether to shoot or not because you're one of those gutless wimps that expect others to do it but you schimff, moan and tick at people who do.Thank God we have real brave men and women in the security forces.

I'll not bother answering any of your other posts in the topic you really are not worth the time and you bore me.

have a nice day.

How crass is that statement? His 'crime', overstaying his visa, his 'punishment, death, hardly a match.:raf:

 

[mad_collie]

How crass is that statement? His 'crime', overstaying his visa, his 'punishment, death, hardly a match.:raf:

It would be quite a powerful deterrent though, they wouldnt be queueing at Calais to get here if it was.DT_Xtremez_31:

 

[True Blue Jack]

Verkramp,

You're really not doing yourself any favours. Had de Menezes returned to Brazil when his visa expired he would not have been in London that day, that is true (and patently obvious). But he was not killed because he was an illegal immigrant; he was killed because he was mistaken for a terrorism suspect.

The inquest will continue to explore all the factors which contributed to that mistake, which will no doubt include the behaviour of a man who may have been afraid of deportation and therefore "nervous and twitchy" as one witness is quoted as saying. But the bottom line is that de Menezes was not the man CO19 were looking for. His death was tragic and the inquest will determine whether or not someone - either on the ground or at command level - is culpable.

TLS has not avoided your "fact" but simply applied your logic to other scenarios to demonstrate the futility of your argument.

 

[The Masked Geek]

It would be quite a powerful deterrent though, they wouldnt be queueing at Calais to get here if it was.DT_Xtremez_31:

Indeed. I think we need to replace foxes with illegal immigrants and bring back the hunt. Would make excellent TV. DT_Xtremez_14:


As for Vekramp, whilst distasteful, his comment is logically correct.

If you illegaly broke into a lion's cage and got killed by the lion, it's hardly the lion's fault but it would deter the next person from trying it.


How many times have people on here cried for the rights of criminals to be removed?

 

[TrenchardsLoveSock]

Indeed. I think we need to replace foxes with illegal immigrants and bring back the hunt. Would make excellent TV. DT_Xtremez_14:


As for Vekramp, whilst distasteful, his comment is logically correct.

If you illegaly broke into a lion's cage and got killed by the lion, it's hardly the lion's fault.


How many times have people on here cried for the rights of criminals to be removed?

I understand the logic behind the statement, it's the underlying sentiment that got to me (and not just from Vekramp).

Fair point, but what if the cage door was left open and the lions got out and killed someone. Does the fact that the victim was a criminal make the initial error OK? Should we promote the zookeeper who left the door open?

 

[mad_collie]

I understand the logic behind the statement, it's the underlying sentiment that got to me (and not just from Vekramp).

Fair point, but what if the cage door was left open and the lions got out and killed someone. Does the fact that the victim was a criminal make the initial error OK? Should we promote the zookeeper who left the door open?

If he is in the RAF and commissioned, yes. (And give him a nice posting).

If he is from the ranks and is deemed responsible, hold a very full and public enquiry then leave him out to dry.

 

[TrenchardsLoveSock]

If he is in the RAF and commissioned, yes. (And give him a nice posting).

If he is from the ranks and is deemed responsible, hold a very full and public enquiry then leave him out to dry.

That would be funny if it wasn't true.

 

[Moz_Magister]

I think I see what the problem is;

Verkramp, you're a ******.

 

[Tashy_Man]

I think I see what the problem is;

Verkramp, you're a ******.

As are you.......everyone is entitled to their OWN opinion..........If you don't like it TOUGH.

Crack on.......................DT_Xtremez_09:

 

[Moz_Magister]

It's not about opinions

It’s about his insistence on repeating a fact irrelevant to the scenario,

His apparent desire to shift the blame from the assumptions and decisions made by CO19 onto an innocent man because his paperwork was out of date.

I am left with the feeling that Verkramp knows little of what happened that day, even less about how our domestic intelligence community and especially CO19 should or do operate. His insistence on reducing a complex set of events down to the immigration status of a now dead man leaves me with the distasteful feeling that his 'opinion' is racially rather than intellectually motivated.

The attitude that it doesn't matter because the dead guy shouldn't have been in the country is missing the point to a cretinus level - the point is that they followed and shot the wrong man and that means that they missed the right man and that should be of major concern to any one working in the security industry and that includes us.

 

[The Masked Geek]

His insistence on reducing a complex set of events down to the immigration status of a now dead man leaves me with the distasteful feeling that his 'opinion' is racially rather than intellectually motivated.

Oh, let's bring out the racist card because I disagree with somebody's opinion...

I was actually taking you serious up to that point...

 

[Verkramp]

Verkramp,

Had de Menezes returned to Brazil when his visa expired he would not have been in London that day, that is true (and patently obvious).

That is the only point that I was making.