Promotion, why take it?

[Mickwreay]

Why would you take promotion?

Promotion to Chief £70 take home
GYH (M) £270
Total rise £340

Living away from home £60 on average per month food charges
600 mile round trip 3 times a month £180
Car servicing every 3 months £150 £50 per month
Total cost involved £290

£340
Minus£ 290
Effective pay rise £50

The system of pay & allowances is clearly not worth the upheaval, yes I hear you say put up or shut up & you get the FS pension but realistically the pay gaps for all are not sufficient to warrant doing it for long. Pay & allowances are one of the biggest reasons I hear people talking about when asked why are you leaving. For most if not all trades an increase in rank comes with a lot more responsibility but not a pay rise to match. Any thoughts?

 

[tommo9999]

People should be given a lump sum when promoted to substantive rank. Something reasonable say 2-3 grand. The jump is more of a stumble now.

 

[The Masked Geek]

Can't say I'm in agreement with this one.

Lets examin the pay scale:

Old pay system:

7 year Sgt: £33k

Promotion to Chief: £36K

4 year chief: £36K


New pay system:

7 year Sgt: £35K

Promotion to Chief: £36K

4 year chief: £39.5K

 

[8:15fromOdium]

Think long term - PENSION.

 

[Bucc Boy]

Why would you take promotion?

Promotion to Chief £70 take home
GYH (M) £270
Total rise £340

Living away from home £60 on average per month food charges
600 mile round trip 3 times a month £180
Car servicing every 3 months £150 £50 per month
Total cost involved £290

£340
Minus£ 290
Effective pay rise £50

The system of pay & allowances is clearly not worth the upheaval, yes I hear you say put up or shut up & you get the FS pension but realistically the pay gaps for all are not sufficient to warrant doing it for long. Pay & allowances are one of the biggest reasons I hear people talking about when asked why are you leaving. For most if not all trades an increase in rank comes with a lot more responsibility but not a pay rise to match. Any thoughts?

I don’t want to revert to the old phrase of, ‘if you don’t like it you know where the door is’, but………….

The unfortunate reality of the modern RAF is that the organisation realises that it owes you nothing and slowly but surely its employees (us) are realising that we don’t owe the RAF anything either.

It is more and more starting to reflect a civilian job in the fact that a bit of experience is far better rewarded by applying for a new position, with better pay or better benefits package, in another company and not waiting around for an extra couple of years stagnating and then finally getting a small pay rise which is disproportionate to the extra responsibility.

The credit crunch may act as a slight retention tool for a few, but I honestly feel the future is bleak with respect to retention.

 

[Mug?]

Difficult looking back

Difficult looking back

Can't say I'm in agreement with this one.

Lets examin the pay scale:

Old pay system:

7 year Sgt: £33k

Promotion to Chief: £36K

4 year chief: £36K


New pay system:

7 year Sgt: £35K

Promotion to Chief: £36K

4 year chief: £39.5K

Dont forget you got increments in the old days! Which is where they got the top levels from.

I say take it if only to prevent some git that has only been in a few years trying to boss you around!
But then again I would only if it came with a posting I wanted!

 

[The Masked Geek]

Dont forget you got increments in the old days! Which is where they got the top levels from.

True, I missed those by a few months coz of pay 2000....Mind you, I did manage a nice hefty £3.5k payrise out of it.

 

[firestorm]

Think long term - PENSION.

Got it in one!DT_Xtremez_30:

 

[Wing boy]

Why would you take promotion?

Promotion to Chief £70 take home
GYH (M) £270
Total rise £340

Living away from home £60 on average per month food charges
600 mile round trip 3 times a month £180
Car servicing every 3 months £150 £50 per month
Total cost involved £290

£340
Minus£ 290
Effective pay rise £50

The system of pay & allowances is clearly not worth the upheaval, yes I hear you say put up or shut up & you get the FS pension but realistically the pay gaps for all are not sufficient to warrant doing it for long. Pay & allowances are one of the biggest reasons I hear people talking about when asked why are you leaving. For most if not all trades an increase in rank comes with a lot more responsibility but not a pay rise to match. Any thoughts?

Living away from home is your choice though isn't it? And you haven't added "get you home " money to your sums.

 

[Tashy_Man]

Promotion to Chief £70 take home
GYH (M) £270
Total rise £340


Living away from home is your choice though isn't it? And you haven't added "get you home " money to your sums.

Think someone needs to look a little closer.......

Crack on........................DT_Xtremez_09:

 

[Mickwreay]

Living away from home is your choice though isn't it? And you haven't added "get you home " money to your sums.

Promotion to Chief £70 take home
GYH (M) £270
Total rise £340

Hi wing boy, if you read very carefully you'll see GYH(M) £270

Yes there are increments & I have taken the promotion & yes my decision is to live away & yes I am thinking long term for the pension. However it did not stop me putting in my notice last week. The pitiful pay rise does not make you stay in long term, which is my point. There is not enough of an incentive to keep you in.

Whilst speaking informally to an AOC in Oman this year, he ranted on about the grass not being greener, my reply to that was “it does not matter what you think Sir, the fact is retention is at an all time low” We all know the grass is not always greener but if the perception is there, then people will jump, where they land is up to their own preparation for civvy life!

 

[Impboy]

I have to agree about wether or not promotion is worth it. On my sqn a mech got his third with a posting to Marham. He lives in quarters with his wife who is also in the mob at Cranwell. If he lived in the mess all week and travelled back at the weekend he would be getting less than a level 7 Cpl. He decided to commute each day thus claiming max rilor but the question remains for the greater responsibilty then there should be a substantial pay rise to offset any outgoings that would negate the pitifull raise in the first place. Dont forget as a SNCO we have to pay for the mess wether we use it or not and that is another bug bear of mine being made to fork out £12 for something that I never use. It may be a small sum but again its something that you have to allow for when accepting promotion. When I went from a level 7 cpl to a level 3 snec I was £36 better off a month. Big deal.:S

 

[True Blue Jack]

Dont forget as a SNCO we have to pay for the mess wether we use it or not and that is another bug bear of mine being made to fork out £12 for something that I never use.

So use it. You must have known all the pros and cons before you accepted your promotion and the balance must have tipped in your favour or you wouldn't have taken the offer.

Before P2K was introduced, people with seniority in any rank moaned that they were more valuable than someone newly promoted (fair point) and should be paid accordingly. P2K introduced that distinction but, as with all such things, had to be cost-neutral so overlap between ranks was an inevitable consequence.

Man up, or give up your rank for someone more suited to wearing it. DT_Xtremez_25:

 

[Impboy]

I dont understand what you are getting at mate. I took promotion because it was recognition for all my hard work. I dont use the mess because I live 33 miles away form camp and to go to every function would cost me a small fortune. Yes I could drive in but then my enjoyment at seeing everyone getting drunck on the cheap booze will really make me happy. I bring my own pack up in for my dinner so dont need to attend the mess for lunch or tea. As I said in my original post the pay rise we get is negligible to the outlays we have to fork out for for becoming a snco. DT_Xtremez_09:

 

[True Blue Jack]

My point was made in the second paragraph. P2K addressed one set of concerns (a newly promoted sgt earning the same as one with 7 years in rank) but the fact that there is not an inexhaustible pot of money means that we now have overlap between the ranks and the pay rise on promotion is often just 2% initially (and can in fact constitute a drop in disposable income in some circumstances).

If you want to go back to the old system that's fine - we'll just go back to hearing the same complaints that I heard during the first 8 years of my career. We cannot have our cake and eat it, it really is as simple as that.

 

[MrMasher]

There is a financial upside to taking promotion. Most people are stuck at the highest pay level in their rank before they get promoted.
At least when you get promoted you can then start increasing your pay levels and use AIPs instead of being stuck on the top level just waiting.
Also, as mentioned, the pension.

Agreed though, the 2% rise on promotion is an insult considering the extra responsibilities. That needs to be looked at.

 

[STEALTHVIFFER]

Got it in one!DT_Xtremez_30:

Also consider the £50,000 plus lump sum on top of the bigger pension (on old scheme anyway) and the fact you can now be the old grumpy chief..............

 

[Talk Wrench]

Slightly off topic.

Have you considered the way civvy employers view rank when you leave the service?

The more promotions that you have under your belt can be beneficial.

As an example, I was turned down for a job with a defence contrator despite having the required skills and experience. The guy who got the job had less experience in the field of employment but was one rank higher than me when in the service.

A lot of civvy employers will look more favourably at the person who has achieved the higher rank when a job contest comes up.

I'm sure an employer will value the managerial expertise of a Chief more than that of a Cpl.



TW

 

[PVRisthefuture]

I'm sure an employer will value the managerial expertise of a Chief more than that of a Cpl.

TW

Is that if you are applying for a management job? Would you say a Cpl (or below) has better chance against a chief for a hands-on role??

 

[Talk Wrench]

Is that if you are applying for a management job? Would you say a Cpl (or below) has better chance against a chief for a hands-on role??

No, but in the realms of a job contest between ex service applicants, the higher the rank achieved appears to be more favorable for the employer.


My own example below.

As an example, I was turned down for a job with a defence contrator despite having the required skills and experience. The guy who got the job had less experience in the field of employment but was one rank higher than me when in the service.

TW