Degradation of the rank of Sergeant

[jack brew]

Sgt Bollocks

Think I used to work for him!

 

[NotAnIDOYet]

Has anyone considered that the rank is also being degraded by soft touch zobs......

I've seen it myself.

Sgt Bollocks SAC about something, SAC then goes to see Flt Lt for a 'chat' all upset because he's been bollocked by Sgt.

Flt Lt then calls Sgt in for a 'chat'...

Sgt then starts to become wary of bollocking people incase he himself gets 'bollocked'

The zobs should be backing he Snecs up at all times, instead of trying to be all touchy feely and understanding........

Thats the all new overly PC RAF for you.

Too much of this going on where I work and not enough kickings. I had someone tell me the other week that I couldn't give them Written Counselling and they wouldn't sign it for me. Cue a bit of instant Oral Counselling on the spot. Little cnut!

The PC brigade have a lot to answer for.

 

[The Stig A.D.I.]

Has anyone considered that the rank is also being degraded by soft touch zobs......

I've seen it myself.

Sgt Bollocks SAC about something, SAC then goes to see Flt Lt for a 'chat' all upset because he's been bollocked by Sgt.

Flt Lt then calls Sgt in for a 'chat'...

Sgt then starts to become wary of bollocking people incase he himself gets 'bollocked'

The zobs should be backing he Snecs up at all times, instead of trying to be all touchy feely and understanding........

Thats the all new overly PC RAF for you.

Hmmm... In that case, I'd be quick to remind said Flt Lt that, had he/she been promoted (even once) on merit and as a result of successful competition, then I'd consider (possibly) giving them the time of day...

Surely any self-respecting SNCO would immediately point-out said Flt Lt's 'oversight' and offer to explain the rudiments of life in the military, i.e. it's the RAF, not fekkin Asda!!!

DT_Xtremez_42:

 

[NotAnIDOYet]

Hmmm... In that case, I'd be quick to remind said Flt Lt that, had he/she been promoted (even once) on merit and as a result of successful competition, then I'd consider (possibly) giving them the time of day...

Surely any self-respecting SNCO would immediately point-out said Flt Lt's 'oversight' and offer to explain the rudiments of life in the military, i.e. it's the RAF, not fekkin Asda!!!

DT_Xtremez_42:

Difficult if said Flt Lt is one of the EO Police and the individual you have bollocked is claiming harrasment. Guilty until proven innocent in my experience.

 

[Tashy_Man]

Guilty until proven innocent in my experience.

Guilty ALWAYS in my experience........once accused forever guilty.

Crack on...................DT_Xtremez_09:

 

[Joe_90]

it's the RAF, not fekkin Asda!!!

DT_Xtremez_42:

It's the Air Force, not the Fair Force eh? Sorry, had to get that one in.

 

[The Stig A.D.I.]

Difficult if said Flt Lt is one of the EO Police and the individual you have bollocked is claiming harrasment. Guilty until proven innocent in my experience.

Agreed, NAIDOY (and you too, TM) - but surely this doesn't mean that the Flt Lt ought not be 'helped' to understand that this just isn't how we do things! Tea & sympathy is one thing, but taking it in the ar5e from your Flt Cdr simply because you're doing what's expected of you, is wholly unacceptable!

I thought the powers were meant to be being 'handed back' to NCOs anyway? What happened to the introduction of this AGAI 67 policy?

DT_Xtremez_25:

 

[The Stig A.D.I.]

It's the Air Force, not the Fair Force eh? Sorry, had to get that one in.

Joe, don't tell me, you're 'Here all week...'

DT_Xtremez_42:

 

[3OCLOCKFINISH]

But who is to blame for this situation?

Is it the Sgt of today? In which case many of you on here are to blame.

Is the the Sgt of yesterday? In which case you can blame them for where you went 'wrong'

Is it the yoof of today? In which case you had better sort them out quick smart.

Is it the officer corp?

Genuine question's. please don't take them as an insult

 

[Mug?]

Too important

Too important

Its the WO and FS's. and the lack of any buffering in the rank structure.
It seems too easy for the SAC scrote to go crying to the BOSS.
The SGT and the FLT LT should go through the FS and WO although I have met a few week bufffers there too.

If I as the boss I would tell them to sort it out. I know the fluffy brigade will get upset but get some spines.

Its back to the Boss not being scarred/ respectfull of the WOs

 

[The Stig A.D.I.]

Maybe the fault doesn't lie with any of the above; we're all now living in a so-called blameless culture (bollox, I know) and this goes hand in hand with the all-new soft, fluffy, pc gone mad, everyone scared to speak out in case they offend, type bubble that the UK has become.

Please don't bore everyone by asking for specific examples, just look at society in general; the (so called) justice system, the lack of powers afforded to police officers and, of course, the fear of anyone (even those holding a position of authority, in both civil and military organisations) to speak out or, more importantly, take action!

We all know the MOD is inundated with claims of one sort or another - I should be happy to be going back to the UK as a SNCO, but all too often, I hear from friends and colleagues about how they dread being had-over by the EO brigade at any given opportunity! It sounds like a minefield, no wonder people keep schtum...

DT_Xtremez_41:

 

[The Dog's]

Maybe the fault doesn't lie with any of the above; we're all now living in a so-called blameless culture (bollox, I know) and this goes hand in hand with the all-new soft, fluffy, pc gone mad, everyone scared to speak out in case they offend, type bubble that the UK has become.

Please don't bore everyone by asking for specific examples, just look at society in general; the (so called) justice system, the lack of powers afforded to police officers and, of course, the fear of anyone (even those holding a position of authority, in both civil and military organisations) to speak out or, more importantly, take action!

We all know the MOD is inundated with claims of one sort or another - I should be happy to be going back to the UK as a SNCO, but all too often, I hear from friends and colleagues about how they dread being had-over by the EO brigade at any given opportunity! It sounds like a minefield, no wonder people keep schtum...

DT_Xtremez_41:

I agree. The RAF, like any other similar organisation, is a microcosm of surrounding society, and reflects its liberalised trends. This includes preserving the rights of the individual at the expense of the rights of the majority (Human Rights Act).

 

[The Stig A.D.I.]

I agree. The RAF, like any other similar organisation, is a microcosm of surrounding society, and reflects its liberalised trends. This includes preserving the rights of the individual at the expense of the rights of the majority (Human Rights Act).

TD, I like it! (I bet you've dropped that quote on a few deserving recipients over the years - I know I will - fanx!). And I'm all for Human Rights, but when society allow for those rights to be over-inflated to the point that they are disproportionate to what's considered 'normal and acceptable' within any given organisation or society as a whole, then it all starts to go a bit pink, fluffy and, lets face it, pear-shaped!

Hence this thread.

DT_Xtremez_42:

 

[fatboy11]

Can we please have some proper old school SNECS back please because it seems that a lot of problems are caused by weak Seniors who didnt have the sense to get out during the previous rounds of redundancies. Awaiting InboundDT_Xtremez_42:

 

[FOMz]

Totally agree...........

 

[NotAnIDOYet]

Can we please have some proper old school SNECS back please because it seems that a lot of problems are caused by weak Seniors who didnt have the sense to get out during the previous rounds of redundancies. Awaiting InboundDT_Xtremez_42:

Pop round the smokers at our place and I will gladly give out a kicking!

The "Old School" SNCOs do exist, we are just rendered impotent by the do-gooders and tree huggers that infect the armed forces nowadays.

It is frowned upon to shout at the students at my trade school, some of them need it. Because of this they look at the likes of me funny if I raise my voice at them at their first unit.

Now I am not saying let's resort to the old school kickings but there has to be a means of keeping discipline. Restrictions are now a joke, Courts Martial is too easy and too many people gamble on DLS dropping a case through lack of evidence. Summary punishment is out because that is bullying so what can the old school do?

Maybe a single service system (one area the Army seem to have got correct!) would be more appropriate.

 

[Realist78]

Pop round the smokers at our place and I will gladly give out a kicking!

The "Old School" SNCOs do exist, we are just rendered impotent by the do-gooders and tree huggers that infect the armed forces nowadays.

It is frowned upon to shout at the students at my trade school, some of them need it. Because of this they look at the likes of me funny if I raise my voice at them at their first unit.

Now I am not saying let's resort to the old school kickings but there has to be a means of keeping discipline. Restrictions are now a joke, Courts Martial is too easy and too many people gamble on DLS dropping a case through lack of evidence. Summary punishment is out because that is bullying so what can the old school do?

Maybe a single service system (one area the Army seem to have got correct!) would be more appropriate.

DT_Xtremez_09:
Bang on the money, I do like the word 'infect', most appropriate!

 

[MontyPlumbs]

I'll add my thoughts to this one...
As an SAC(T) working with Wobbly I can totally see what he is talking about- the senior SACs do the Cpl's job, the Cpls do the SNECs job and Wobbly and the other Sgts do all the jobs all at once. When he asks us to do something we do it on the understanding that even if he adds a please on the end, its still an order...

Yet there are members of the flight who don't understand this and do argue the toss, or get too pally. Or have grown-ups who no spine and won't stand up for the lads- totally chicken and egg.

Maybe we should fire everbody, and start again from scratch?

Shouty, a very good post which I think sums up what everyone is basically talking about. In a majority of cases, the NCOs don't need to shout at us to get the job done - we are, after all, professionals and should know what is expected of us, any half decent SAC will just crack on and do the job, sometimes without being told. The problem comes when you have a few "bad eggs" on the section and being friendly with your SNEC puts said SNEC in a difficult position when dealing with the scrotes. To be honest I think it's only going to get worse as they recruit anyone with two arms and two legs to get bums on seats, people that possibly, even a few years ago when I joined up would have been found "temprementally unfit for service life". Add to that the fact that any form of discipline seems to have gone out the window in case you offend or upset someone (fcuk me I thought we killed people for a living!) then the future doesn'tlook very bright for NCOs.

Just my opinion of course (don't get me wrong - I wouldn't want the Army system whereby things get done by the guy with the loudest voice).

 

[wobbly]

If you're a good leader then you don't need to bark but you have to make sure your lads and lasses know there is a line they should not cross.

Sure, I've had a few times as a SNEC that disgruntled JT's who joined up before me have pushed the limit but soon found out that the chair they were sitting on was swiftly removed and the next thing they knew they were on their back on the floor. The daddy liney never tried to fook me about anymore since then funnily enough.

Old school methods are still the best way of sorting the little ****s out but then again you get into trouble nowadays. Luckily people understand that if they look after me then I will bend over backwards to look after them. It works both ways and luckily where I work now I have a fantastic bunch of lads and lasses working on my desk who will work their plumbs off without a single whinge.

I also agree that there are too many spineless SNECS who have been promoted well beyond their capabilities and this should be picked up at IMLC but never seems to be. Maybe thats the problem.

 

[Realist78]

If you're a good leader then you don't need to bark but you have to make sure your lads and lasses know there is a line they should not cross.

Sure, I've had a few times as a SNEC that disgruntled JT's who joined up before me have pushed the limit but soon found out that the chair they were sitting on was swiftly removed and the next thing they knew they were on their back on the floor. The daddy liney never tried to fook me about anymore since then funnily enough.

Old school methods are still the best way of sorting the little ****s out but then again you get into trouble nowadays. Luckily people understand that if they look after me then I will bend over backwards to look after them. It works both ways and luckily where I work now I have a fantastic bunch of lads and lasses working on my desk who will work their plumbs off without a single whinge.

I also agree that there are too many spineless SNECS who have been promoted well beyond their capabilities and this should be picked up at IMLC but never seems to be. Maybe thats the problem.

Absolutely spot on!