Why do we insist on exporting our manufacturing jobs?

[Old Timer Chris]

Its not just steel under threat its virtually every high energy manufacturing company in the country and you know what, 'self imposed' green energy taxes are one of the major reasons.


An interesting article from the Spectator on why the UK has to pay the price! Madness!



Fraser Nelson explains this here

 

[MontyPlumbs]

Moving pollution to an area of the world with even less regard for the Environment...yeah that will work!

Obviously it's nothing to do with maximising profit. British workers (and their inherent workers rights) are expensive.

 

[ninjarabbi]

Almost on the same topic I recently read that Germany, having cancelled its nuclear programme after Fukishima (must be because of all those Tsunamis you ger in Germany) decided to start building new gas powered power stations. the only issue being that all the expetise required to build them has ;long since vanished so now they're stuck.

It's the same with us, farm out all your manufacturing processes and eventually all your local expertise has gone and it will never come back. we did use to have an amazing aviation industry, we were at the forefront of nuclear power and we've blown the lot.

 

[Fu Fu Valve]

The biggest irony of it all is - as said it's mainly caused by the Climate Change Act which says we will build more 're-newables' like wind turbines. The wind turbines need steel, lots of steel and where do we get it from - China.
The climate change act (Brought in by the workers friends - Liabour) always spelt he end of the big manufacturing industries in this country. We'll hear Liabour and their great leader talking about Nationalising the industry (something we can't do under EU law) but they won't admit that the biggest issue is the cost of energy for industry.
So rather than make the steel here we buy it from China and have it shipped to the Uk to 'save the planet'.
It's so mental only a politician could make it happen

 

[FOMz]

All the Steel workers in Port Talbot and elsewhere need to do is to declare themselves Chinese and Camoron and the rest if his cronies will bend over backwards for them and throw money at them left right and centre.

 

[busby1971]

The reason we have the Climate Change Act at its because of the EU.

The reason we cannot stop cheap Chinese steel coming into the country is the EU.

The reason we cannot step in and help our steel workers through subsidy or support is the EU

 

[FOMz]

The reason we cannot step in and help our steel workers through subsidy or support is the EU

And the fact Camoron diesnt want to start a trade war with China.

Buy British I say.

 

[Tin basher]

And the fact Camoron diesnt want to start a trade war with China.

That's a fight we can't win, their economy and global reach is now so much larger than ours the empire went many many years ago. Plus they invest enormous sums in the UK HS2 and the new Hinkley Point nuclear site to name but 2. Sadly if HMG want the Chinese cash and investment then they must give undue deference to the Chinese. Not ideal.

 

[busby1971]

And the fact Camoron diesnt want to start a trade war with China.

Buy British I say.

Cameron can't start a trade war with anyone because we don't control what comes in and what tariffs are charged that's the EU that does that, and it's done nothing to stop China dumping cheap steel in the EU.

Quite surprised the Leave campaign haven't jumped on this.

 

[Stevienics]

There's just too much steel in a market calibrated to accommodate building, infrastructure and manufacturing in China as well as ROW. Growth is now sub 7% (astonishing for China) - so their next move is to dump their excess on the European market and cut their losses whilst assuring the relative deficit conditions do not deteriorate too much between there, and here. They're simply passign on as much of the pain as they can. Quite clever really.

As a good friend pointed out as well. You're trying to balance the unit cost of a mortgage, car, taxes and NI, and 2 foreign holidays against a guy with a bowl of rice in a leaky panel flat. The unit cost of production here can never compete with pretty much anywhere without state subsidy, and we won't tolerate that again - it's all over.

 

[Late & Tired]

Interesting times.
In my role as a Quality Inspector and mechanical Commissioning Engineer, I often undertake a full audit trail on materials on behalf of the Client or end user. Quite often, this trail involves 10204 3.1 & 3.2 scrutiny of the certification to ensure that NO Chinese steel is used in the component manufacture.
It is stated from the client that NO Chinese steel is permitted.

 

[Stevienics]

On the basis of quality, conditions of contract or other reasons? Very interesting. How do the cope with sub assemblies manufactured elsewhere?

 

[Ghandi's Flip-Flop]

As a good friend pointed out as well. You're trying to balance the unit cost of a mortgage, car, taxes and NI, and 2 foreign holidays against a guy with a bowl of rice in a leaky panel flat. The unit cost of production here can never compete with pretty much anywhere without state subsidy, and we won't tolerate that again - it's all over.

What a great quote, Its utter horsehit of course. Most Chinese manufacturing wages have increased at a rate of around 12% per annum since 2001 and are actually not that far of their Western Equivalents, certainly when the cost of living is factored in.
Whereas here in the prosperous west, wages have stagnated for best part of a decade. German car manufacturing for example is going back to employing people as they're significantly cheaper than robots.

The Italians and the Germans have ignored or circumvented certain EU rules to keep their sovereign Steelmaking capabilities intact. Why are our lot unable or unwilling to do the same? Its not as if there are several large UK infrastructure builds needing Steel on the horizon is it?

 

[Stevienics]

What a great quote, Its utter horsehit of course. Most Chinese manufacturing wages have increased at a rate of around 12% per annum since 2001 and are actually not that far of their Western Equivalents, certainly when the cost of living is factored in.
Whereas here in the prosperous west, wages have stagnated for best part of a decade. German car manufacturing for example is going back to employing people as they're significantly cheaper than robots.

The Italians and the Germans have ignored or circumvented certain EU rules to keep their sovereign Steelmaking capabilities intact. Why are our lot unable or unwilling to do the same? Its not as if there are several large UK infrastructure builds needing Steel on the horizon is it?

This being the case then, all you have to do is explain why our steel is more expensive than everyone else's?, because believe me, we wouldn't be in this hole if we could sell the stuff - and we cannot.

As for the salary, it's about $7000 per annum in an environment of productive machinisation. Think on.

 

[Ghandi's Flip-Flop]

I suggest you go and read a more recent copy of the economist the next weekend you're off warrioring.

The main reason our steel is more expensive is due to Government imposed green levy's above and beyond anything required by the EU.

Sent from my XT1092 using Tapatalk

 

[Stevienics]

The reason the Govt could not retarct the Labour Administrations move to ridiculously green tax industry, if you could be bothered to ongo some research, is that the EU that Labour loves so ardently won't let them do it. The blesssed EU concerns itself with itself, not us.

However, our labour rates are still too high.... you'll want consolidation on this point even though you won't offer it back in kind - so here it is. Tata make Landrovers and other luxury cars as well. Wanna guess who's steel they make in the manufacture? I'll give you one one guess. It doesn't come from here.

(You seem to have backed off on the chinese labour rates, Ill consider that point won shall I?)

Labour were insrumental in the destruction of manufacturing, so the hypocrisy here is simply staggering. That said, it would have happened anyway. If it's made better and cheaper elsewhere, and we are still in the EU - steel in the UK is dead. Under ANY administration

 

[metimmee]

I suggest you go and read a more recent copy of the economist the next weekend you're off warrioring.

The main reason our steel is more expensive is due to Government imposed green levy's above and beyond anything required by the EU.

Sent from my XT1092 using Tapatalk

It's certainly a factor, but you cant deny that the Chinese are dumping steel on the world market at a loss. If they are able to sell at a loss, with peanuts for wages then we dont stand a chance. This talks about how the UK has vetoed measures within the EU to apply protective tariffs in the same way the US have. It is hard to fathom why this government have taken this course of action. I suspect the French and the Germans would act now to protect the strategically important and face the consequences later.

 

[TG3 TILL I DIE!!!!]

That's a fight we can't win, their economy and global reach is now so much larger than ours the empire went many many years ago. Plus they invest enormous sums in the UK HS2 and the new Hinkley Point nuclear site to name but 2. Sadly if HMG want the Chinese cash and investment then they must give undue deference to the Chinese. Not ideal.

Think you'll find the chinese have said "no solly not intelested" and even their bedfellow EDF are trying to u-turn on Hinckley point.

 

[MontyPlumbs]

Interesting times.
In my role as a Quality Inspector and mechanical Commissioning Engineer, I often undertake a full audit trail on materials on behalf of the Client or end user. Quite often, this trail involves 10204 3.1 & 3.2 scrutiny of the certification to ensure that NO Chinese steel is used in the component manufacture.
It is stated from the client that NO Chinese steel is permitted.

It's certainly the case in the railway too. About 4 years ago some bright spark tried to source wheelsets from China...soon put a stop to that. We've got enough technical issues on rolling stock without having disintegrating wheelsets too.