what do about Retention?

[MontyPlumbs]

I know, I get asked if I'm a real armourer all the time!!

I think the new skool armourers are a lot brighter than you give us credit for

Saying that, I am fond of using crayons......

 

[sumps]

I hope that the topend read and take this on board, Monty' has hit the nail on the head. I would like to echo his worsds by saying:

Ethos – Define it then work to it – let’s face it if a true common belief was believed-in and held-to by the majority there would be less talk and activity toward leaving by the majority.

Trust – We need to trust in the top end and they need to trust in us. There are days when I think I would get more respect if I reverted to being a space cadet. Stop trying to pull the wool over our eyes tell us the whole truth then respect our views and act on our views for the better.

Training - I want the new entrants to have the same detailed training that I had i.e. the mentality of selling off levels maintenance inorder that operative training can be reduced is ridiculous – Our equipment still operates around the same scientific and administrative principles(and MORE) as its forbears therefore people still need to have a full working knowledge not an appreciation or overview.

Respect (1) – Our SWOs are seen as a menace to society as opposed to a figure of authority – what hope have our corporals got over the ever despondent JT/SAC/LAC’s

Respect (2) – You can be deployed to an operational theatre carry out the duties of those normally way above you – however when you return you get shoved back in your box.

Respect (3) – It is possible (and a lot of people have) to gain academic qualifications above and beyond your Officers and NCO’s yet how often do you get the chance to use this new found training.

Kudos / Integrity

(1) - Up until the end of the cold war, we trained and armed for an overwhelming enemy that could be seen and an event but never happened. Following a lull and with successive downsizing now we are hunting a considerably smaller yet unseen enemy. To do this the powers that be require us to it with industry practices including reduced manpower and equipment with little or no support.

(2) - The government wishes to maintain the status of the UK with in the world’s power groups (UN, G8, NATO…etc). One of the facets required to do this is adequate military capability – and all that happens is the media, lawyers & accountants tell the government of the day to pull us apart, in the vain hope that it will stop lots of us getting into trouble at the same time making things cheaper.

(3) - We are supposed to be able to fight two medium sized operations and on small operation at any one time – the numbers speak for themselves – PEOPLE AND MONEY to achieve the objective.

 

[fat lazy techie]

All the good points noted as far with the addition of:

Ditch JPA for something that works
Decent messing
Decent accomodation
A bit of honesty from our lords and masters (might be asking for way too much here)
No promotion for the leg-irons/those with magical yoyoing med cats. (downgraded-upgraded for promotion-downgraded again)
Fair assessment system, how you do your primary task not how many secondary duties you do.

 

[BillyBunter]

Well i cant really thinkof anything thats been said already , the list goes on

I just seriousley think the damage is too far done to correct now

I know that may sound negative and id like things to get back to the way it was , thats never going to happen while we are still under Labour

Thats my view

 

[Pan Warrior]

Round and round

Round and round

The wheels in the RAF
go round and round
round and round
round and round
The wheels in the RAF
go round and round
all year long.

The management in the RAF
SAY YES YES YES
YES YES YES
YES YES YES
The management in the RAF
SAY YES YES YES
ALL DAY LONG.

The minions in the RAF
GET RIGHT FNUKED OFF
RIGHT FNUKED OFF
RIGHT FNUKED OFF
The minions in the RAF
GET RIGHT FNUKED OFF
ALL DAY LONG.


any more verses you can think of.DT_Xtremez_28:

 

[The Masked Geek]

1) Stop working for the government we are, afterall, the ROYAL Air Force. If they want us to be RAF PLC then maybe we should treat them as customers and dictate our own prices and terms.

2) Get rid of the mostly ineffectual officer core. There are only 2 groups, why do we have hundreds of Group Captains? Imagine the wage bill savings if officers were ranked by the job position they held rather than the old boys system.

3) Put a maximum time in rank limit so that useless feckers cannot stay in forever wasting PIC numbers. Seven years would be enough, if you're not promoted by then, you are obviuously sh1t so bye bye. Obviously, we'd need to assess people on what they actually do rather than how far up the the rectal passages of their 1st / 2nd RO's they are which some people are assessed on a the moment.

4) Put the right man (or woman) in the right job and give them the equipment they need.

5) Pay compared to civvy street and then the 13% actually added on.

6) This could go on for ever.

 

[Realist78]

1) Stop working for the government we are, afterall, the ROYAL Air Force. If they want us to be RAF PLC then maybe we should treat them as customers and dictate our own prices and terms.

2) Get rid of the mostly ineffectual officer core. There are only 2 groups, why do we have hundreds of Group Captains? Imagine the wage bill savings if officers were ranked by the job position they held rather than the old boys system.

3) Put a maximum time in rank limit so that useless feckers cannot stay in forever wasting PIC numbers. Seven years would be enough, if you're not promoted by then, you are obviuously sh1t so bye bye. Obviously, we'd need to assess people on what they actually do rather than how far up the the rectal passages of their 1st / 2nd RO's they are which some people are assessed on a the moment.

4) Put the right man (or woman) in the right job and give them the equipment they need.

5) Pay compared to civvy street and then the 13% actually added on.

6) This could go on for ever.

Would have seen a sh1tload of people go in the early nineties when there was a virtual freeze on promotions for approx 6 years!DT_Xtremez_09:

 

[Mrs_Monobrow]

The wheels in the RAF
go round and round
round and round
round and round
The wheels in the RAF
go round and round
all year long.

The management in the RAF
SAY YES YES YES
YES YES YES
YES YES YES
The management in the RAF
SAY YES YES YES
ALL DAY LONG.

The minions in the RAF
GET RIGHT FNUKED OFF
RIGHT FNUKED OFF
RIGHT FNUKED OFF
The minions in the RAF
GET RIGHT FNUKED OFF
ALL DAY LONG.


any more verses you can think of.DT_Xtremez_28:

How about ........

The minions in the RAF
say wheres my pay
wheres my pay
wheres my pay
The minions in the RAF
say wheres my pay
All day long!

 

[mad_collie]

1) Stop working for the government we are, afterall, the ROYAL Air Force. If they want us to be RAF PLC then maybe we should treat them as customers and dictate our own prices and terms.

2) Get rid of the mostly ineffectual officer core. There are only 2 groups, why do we have hundreds of Group Captains? Imagine the wage bill savings if officers were ranked by the job position they held rather than the old boys system.

3) Put a maximum time in rank limit so that useless feckers cannot stay in forever wasting PIC numbers. Seven years would be enough, if you're not promoted by then, you are obviuously sh1t so bye bye. Obviously, we'd need to assess people on what they actually do rather than how far up the the rectal passages of their 1st / 2nd RO's they are which some people are assessed on a the moment.

4) Put the right man (or woman) in the right job and give them the equipment they need.

5) Pay compared to civvy street and then the 13% actually added on.

6) This could go on for ever.

Would have seen a sh1tload of people go in the early nineties when there was a virtual freeze on promotions for approx 6 years!DT_Xtremez_09:

There's another promotion freeze in your Trade Group at the moment TMG, pay us all off & we'd gladly all leave, as we're obviously all sh1t.

 

[WindYerNeckIn]

Monty Plums for president is all I can say, plus make defo sure the old style raincoats come back, they were ace.
Also I remember the day when rank in the RAF actually meant something. Now I am not rankist, ask anyone who knows me, but I remember the day of my first posting and in them days a Cpl was god, only to be spoken to when he asked you a direct question.
Now not too long ago on XII (B) an LAC went into the FS office and said quote "alright mate, I'm just posted in sign this arrivals chit would you" unquote. WTF is that all about!!!

give us a clue!!!!


go on.... ive been there a few years now and wouldnt mind finding out!

 

[The Masked Geek]

There's another promotion freeze in your Trade Group at the moment TMG, pay us all off & we'd gladly all leave, as we're obviously all sh1t.

Obviously, a bit of intelligent management would work around promotion freezes.

 

[mad_collie]

Obviously, a bit of intelligent management would work around promotion freezes.

Some of that would help retention, unfortunately I've not seen much of it recently.

 

[I`m Ron Burgundy?]

Well i cant really thinkof anything thats been said already , the list goes on

I just seriousley think the damage is too far done to correct now

I know that may sound negative and id like things to get back to the way it was , thats never going to happen while we are still under Labour

Thats my view

While this is certainly true; Gordon Brown`s view on defence that "A pound spent is a pound wasted" says it all- remember what the Tories did? manpower down from 100k to 40 odd, closure of RAFG, selling off Aircraft and Ships etc.. they started it all and Labour are just finishing the job. Just toss a coin for the next general election...we`re doomed under any of them.

 

[PSF Angel]

Stop getting rid of the work force and stop making 'jobs for the boys'. Not too many years ago there were over 70,000 personnel and ONE OC Eng Wg. Now we have nearly half that and apparently it now needs 2 Wg Cdrs to cope!

When the RAF is supposed to be downsizing, take out the officers too FFS!

 

[Sospan]

70,000 personnel and ONE OC Eng Wg. Now we have nearly half that and apparently it now needs 2 Wg Cdrs to cope!

That's a bloody big Eng Wing !

 

[R_Squared]

Fair assessment system, how you do your primary task not how many secondary duties you do.

This is actually in the pipeline as we speak. I was at a briefing a couple of weeks ago where the new '6000's' were being introduced over the next year.
It was concerned with mainly how it was a Forces combined effort, so Army, RN and RAF all have the same assesments, and it cut out a lot of the old rubbish quite nicely.
To say I was cynical when I first heard of it would be an understatement, but it actually looked pretty good. The majority of it focusing on your suitability for promotion, not banging on about charity work, sporting events and other secondary stuff.
I thought it actually 'may' work, but, and it's a big but, It is purely electronic.
Not to happy about that bit, but I think it'll be worth a go.

 

[Joe_90]

1. Give me my job back and stop contracting out to civilians who promise to do everything and then do nothing, leaving me with no spares backup and no technical information because "that's the contractors job and they hold all that".

2. Stop signing Snecs onto 30 years. If a JNCO gets his third after 22 years then give him his pension and f**k him off. I know we need experience but why should it take 8 or 9 years between ranks, thats not a career. Instead of the army coming into line with us and signing old geezers on, we should go their way, 22 years max term then your out, regardless of rank.

 

[Captain Gatso]

Who needs questionairs, dreamed up by the fuzzy mob, to inform the Airships. They should look here. There have been a ton of good ideas mentioned here. A while back, on another thread. Someone mentioned that, some high ranking zob at PMA. Read the Goat on a daily basis. If he or she is reading this thread. Start reading, start listening and above all. START ACTING NOW.DT_Xtremez_30:

 

[Realist78]

1. Give me my job back and stop contracting out to civilians who promise to do everything and then do nothing, leaving me with no spares backup and no technical information because "that's the contractors job and they hold all that".

2. Stop signing Snecs onto 30 years. If a JNCO gets his third after 22 years then give him his pension and f**k him off. I know we need experience but why should it take 8 or 9 years between ranks, thats not a career. Instead of the army coming into line with us and signing old geezers on, we should go their way, 22 years max term then your out, regardless of rank.

Well said, I do think that 5-8 years between ranks, if the guy/gal is good enough is a joke. I'm sure everyone has seen a bod get promoted to (let's say) Cpl and after a few short months you're thinking " that guy should be skipping this rank and should move right into SNCO. It is said that our 'careers' are managed which, frankly, is laughable. What career management machine would simply move someone to a virtually identical job to a geographically diifferent area for no gain (I say geographically different because almost all camps are identical but with a different village name outside the camp gates).:raf:

 

[Tashy_Man]

1. Give me my job back and stop contracting out to civilians who promise to do everything and then do nothing, leaving me with no spares backup and no technical information because "that's the contractors job and they hold all that".

2. Stop signing Snecs onto 30 years. If a JNCO gets his third after 22 years then give him his pension and f**k him off. I know we need experience but why should it take 8 or 9 years between ranks, thats not a career. Instead of the army coming into line with us and signing old geezers on, we should go their way, 22 years max term then your out, regardless of rank.

I agree....22 years MAX for all services.....this would equalise all promotions across the board...it would also stop ex WO1/2 's from the Army rejoining the RAF after their timex in Army as Jengo's just for a cushy job.....(jobs for the boys on a lower scale)

Crack on.............