The State were in.

[insideinfoman]

Point for infoman, if the TMT1 students fail to make the grade, then why not bin them from the course - radical but it could set a example to others.

It's very hard to fail them when they come on TMT and work to the standards set. We have been very close but just couldn't nail them. We actually had a couple of courses who we had to give them a 1 to 1 mid wat through the course to get them to buck their ideas up. It did work and I'd like to think, sent a few signals to others coming on course but what else can you do, IF they make the grade and you know that they will be ar$es out in the field?

It very difficult. DT_Xtremez_21:

 

[Standards]

I've only asked two WAAFs out - I was blown out by the 'Chef' and have been married to the other for 9 years.

Of course, I do hope that you meant WRAF's! Otherwise your taste in women might be a little too much on the mature side!

Standards!

 

[Donald Rumsfeld]

Now that I come back fro my well earned tea break I can remount my high horse !
Whilst FOMZ is right in what he said about having SACs doing at least 2 tours of perhaps vary length and diversity followed by the promex I do think the same can be applied across all ranks. Time after time I have heard and seen people in their little comfort zones mooching along and getting promoted. These were the type you would meet on OOA who failed to grasp the nettle and were obviously struggling to get to grips with a new challenging environment. So FOMZ your spot on with that critique of the SACs, but its important not to forget that some of our peers sadly lack the street cred as well. And please do not get me started on the WOs !!!

 

[SirSaltyHelmet]

A few Sgts to FS been stuck in same place for years prior to promotion

 

[insideinfoman]

Maybe thats true at your Stn but what about others were FOM's have been in post for inexcess of 6+yrs?

 

[SirSaltyHelmet]

You have nearly done 5!

 

[mightyhunter]

was a J/T for 5 1/2 years before being made up to Cpl. my theory, as far as TG1 SAC(T)'s are concerned, (those who weren't sent on the assimilation courses ie straight from Halton) are going to be pushed through to prove that the 'system' works. this is to the detriment to some top quality J/T's and/or assmilated mechs. by the way, i was a mech/tech when i joined up.
*sits and waits for the shouts of derision*DT_Xtremez_42:

 

[insideinfoman]

You have nearly done 5!

Damn right it's a max 5yr tour and I'm already exploring/digging my escape route. Could stay longer for a couple of reasons but don't want to have told the desk I want a move. DT_Xtremez_30:

5yrs is plenty long enough at the school thank you very much!! DT_Xtremez_35:

 

[General Slim]

Five years at a training school is far too long, 3 should be the maximum, perhaps another one happy in the comfort zone ?

 

[Jag Fag]

Of course, I do hope that you meant WRAF's! Otherwise your taste in women might be a little too much on the mature side!

Standards!

She's got a lovely zimmer frameDT_Xtremez_15:

 

[General Slim]

But thats true of a helluva lot of Instructors at FOTF/CATCS, end result is a loss of credibilty and knowledge about current affairs.

 

[Standards]

But thats true of a helluva lot of Instructors at FOTF/CATCS, end result is a loss of credibilty and knowledge about current affairs.

I say dear chap....bit of a swathing attack isn't it!

Loss of credibility? To prevent this getting into a slanging match, let us say that to lose something you first had to have it! My tongue firmly in cheek.

Every teaching establishment is going to teach things in reverse order...... that is to say, if something shiney and new comes in, it will always go to where it is needed first, the front line. Then the process of teaching it is looked at. In some cases it is taught by OJT. In others it is decided to teach the basics at an initial level. The ideal situation it may not be, but has there ever been an ideal solution put in place before it was too late? Probably not.


Standards!

 

[insideinfoman]

Gen Slim,

I take you are fully up to speed on all current procedures then, espcially MF MIS, as it's about to come into service?

I agree with maybe only being an instructor for 3yrs, it will stop complacancy from ALL instructors.


As for loss of credibility and knowledge of current affairs, I can assure you that most of our instructor have credibilty and knowlegde of current affairs, problably more than a lot of people out there.

Time for a Costas Coffee I think DT_Xtremez_28:

 

[Bluntend]

I think there is always the risk that if you spend protracted periods of time away from the front line you can lose sight of what's really going on. I knew a senior engineering officer, for example, who when asked about Q-Ops and SAC (Techs) was completely dumbfounded. He'd been working in the corridors of Strike an the DLO for so long, focusing on End to End, Transition Staircases, Lean etc that he'd lost touch with what was going on in the 'real world'. IMHO, whether you’re in the training environment or determining future policy, its important that you keep up to date with what’s going on on our Stations and our posters should do their best to make sure that this happens.

 

[Flopsie]

Get some in...

Get some in...

The fault does lie really with the ROs, if the subject is crap then say so, do not be afraid of marking a person down. What happens is that you eventually end up working with these useless tossers

Just read back a few and found the above. Totally agree, it's not the tossers fault he got promoted, the RO's take all the responsibility. I don't know of any who've said "Sorry, promotion's not for me because I'm a bit of a prat" With the FMDL as it is now if you recommend someone they could get promoted even if they've not done the time.

Prior to writing anyone's 6000 I ask myself 'Could I trust/work with this guy if he came in tomorrow with new rank slides?' If the answer is no they will get, at the most, a LTBF. You don't have to be nice all the time, you're paid to speak the truth...sometimes.

 

[Donald Rumsfeld]

Slim. As usual you are wrong. The comfort zone does not exist on Instructor tours, because of the very nature of the job you are never off duty, thats fact number 1.
Number 2, you are very much at the forefront of changes/developments over the trade, therefore you have actually better access to information, unlike misinformed ****s such as yourself.
The thread that you had started had the theme of how the lack of experience at JNCO level was affecting the trade overall. Shawbury on more than one occassion has had to try and rectify the mistakes made by training teams, often manned by NCOs promoted from and into their comfort zones. One FOA was returned to Shawbury for further training, after much digging the problem did not lie with his professionalism as such but rather with that of his NCO, by all accounts the former had problems with plotting, and the latter had lost the plot in regards of man mangement and basic personality skills. Lord only knows what happenend to the pair of them, one suspects one was promoted further up the food chain to create further havoc, its not you is it Slim ?

 

[Donald Rumsfeld]

FOMz and Cheeky M, In regards to the above I have/had a well informed and balanced view of the situation concerned, perhaps we are talking about different incidents. But a character that I certainly have always held in high esteem and who could be easily described as a expert witness clearly understood what was at the root of this particular problem. Thats why this incident(s) are actually relevant to this thread, clearly judging by the reaction by you two, and in particular the slightly aggressive reply from FOMZ over itmaybe you have something to declare ?. Enough bickering goes on, this was a reasonable attempt to start a new thread(look at the new visitors for one), perhaps you sensistive and tetchy souls might want to think twice before entering the big boys arena for a chat.

 

[insideinfoman]

But that what happens when you have people in posts for a very long time and if I think you're talking about the same person the JNCO had/has been in post for what 10yrs?

Talk about instructors only being in post of a certain amount of time it should be the same for eveyone MAX 5yrs or has been said before back to the ol' 3 year and move on! DT_Xtremez_28:

 

[Flopsie]

it should be the same for eveyone MAX 5yrs or has been said before back to the ol' 3 year and move on! DT_Xtremez_28:

All good but, it went to a 'do not disturb' posting policy because too many people moaned about moving. If you think you're stuck somewhere put in the 'ol environmental form, promotion boards love 'em.

As said the problem are the ones who are happy to veg in one place so what can we do?

1. Wait until they're longest in post but that's way beyond five years
2. Sit on a PB and penalise them for not developing trade skills.
3. Have a quit word round back of the NAAFIDT_Xtremez_25:
Any more suggestions?

 

[General Slim]

Having a little bit of inside knowledge on the complete spanner that was returned to Shawbury to refresh on what was a very basic set of skills I feel the need to make a point.
Mr Rumsfeld does have point and some of his arguments are sound and do hold water, Instructor duties are not to be taken lightly etc, and DR was trying to make a valid point before being ganged up on from FOMz/Monkey. There was nothing wrong with the individual in question, neither was there anything wrong with the Mentor from Shawbury. The whole problem lay with a inadequate training and OJT system at a particular unit, and lack of imaginative and creative training staff. That much could be seen from meeting a number of key charcaters invovled.