SJAR Alignment Boards - are they fair?

[Spearmint]

As per the title of this thread, are they considered fair, even legal? It is alleged that at our location a number of individuals are unhappy with being given a Dev (2x Sac, 1x Cpl, 1x PO, 1x Sgt who previously held good to very good SJARs) especially after finding out that their grades and narratives were changed to reflect some sort of pecking order in amongst all the other SJARs.

Surely somebody should have a fair report on them as an individual and not have it subject to being *******ised just to suit the SEngO's opinion?

Is it worth a collective service complaint? Especially seeing as the SEngO in question is leaving our place under a cloud after being publicly forced by the CO to fall on her sword having 'Failed our Sqn as a Leader'.

 

[FOMz]

I've never agreed with that way of writing and scoring SJARS.. if you have two or possibly three outstanding candidates, they should equally be given the report they deserve, not ranking people 1-10 or whatever, so one or two loses out.

Its a lazy management and reporting culture in my opinion.

 

[Barch]

I take it they don't use the old system of comparative scores against the perfect airman?

 

[FOMz]

I take it they don't use the old system of comparative scores against the perfect airman?

Do you mean Sausage2 or ILLBW?

 

[busby1971]

Totally unfair in my book, biased because one of the only times I've feel genuinely disadvantaged was after such a process.

Segmenting and rationing by unit goes (or did at the time) against the principles of the scheme, each eligible individual is in completion with all other eligible individual's of the same rank and trade, this interferes in that process.

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[Digzster]

As per the title of this thread, are they considered fair, even legal? It is alleged that at our location a number of individuals are unhappy with being given a Dev (2x Sac, 1x Cpl, 1x PO, 1x Sgt who previously held good to very good SJARs) especially after finding out that their grades and narratives were changed to reflect some sort of pecking order in amongst all the other SJARs.

Surely somebody should have a fair report on them as an individual and not have it subject to being *******ised just to suit the SEngO's opinion?

Is it worth a collective service complaint? Especially seeing as the SEngO in question is leaving our place under a cloud after being publicly forced by the CO to fall on her sword having 'Failed our Sqn as a Leader'.

If this is indeed the case, I would be interested to see if the powers that be on the the board are also aware of the possible slanting of SJAR's by the hari-kari individual? (and would the Sengo's comments/recommendations on SJAR's be taken as is)?

 

[Barch]

How come when they make 'improvements' things get worse?

 

[Dazzy26]

For my 2 pence worth, if you are a 1RO, the report is yours and not someone else's to write. Therefore you are the one that makes the recommendation not anyone else. If there is evidence you haven't and you've been swayed then I suggest that is SC grounds and more?? Yes you discuss with the 2RO and you agree the facts. Promotion boards do like to see 1,2,3 out of xx but that shouldn't effect the promotion recommendation.
How many SJARs is the SEngO actually an RO for?

 

[Dan_Brown]

Promotion boards do like to see 1,2,3 out of xx but that shouldn't effect the promotion recommendation.

I agree with this - i will write words to the effect of "S/he is my number 1 Cpl of x amount"; it is a strong indicator to the board.

However, i would not go beyond 2 or 3 of x amount ie "number 20 of 30 cpls" - this does nothing but disservice the subject.

Especially seeing as the SEngO in question is leaving our place under a cloud after being publicly forced by the CO to fall on her sword having 'Failed our Sqn as a Leader'.

Sounds juicy! Would love to hear what was said publicly as that type of conversation is usually behind closed doors!!

 

[muttywhitedog]

We always had Sqn Murder boards. Rated the various ranks in a pecking order. Surely someone has to be 1 of 10, 20, 30 etc....

I don't see the problem here but maybe I am missing your point.

Ditto. If the ROs are expecting a 2nd (or 3rd) RO to tell a promotion board to "promote this man now", then you can bet your life a 2nd or 3rd RO at another unit is also saying the same thing. To have a 3rd RO saying "this is my best man - promote him" for half a dozen of the same rank and trade means his credibility as 3rd RO is called into question and runs the risk of none being selected. However, if he says "SAC X is the best (or in the top 5) across my wing of 50", then it gives a better picture.

Generally those who feel disadvantaged are the ones who, when it comes down to 3rd RO opinion, are not quite as good as they thought they were, and are peeved to discover the 3rd RO doesn't rate them as highly as they rate themselves.

 

[Spearmint]

The main issue that all mentioned here have a problem with is the fact that she effectively had several 1st RO's change numbers and narratives to reflect that individuals ranking in her little list. She wasn't even a 3rd RO as such but definitely had too much influence over the process.

Here, if your 1st RO is a weak individual then you're knackered as they'll have serious trouble fighting your corner at the alignment board.

Sounds juicy! Would love to hear what was said publicly as that type of conversation is usually behind closed doors!!

Never in all my time have I witnessed what happened that day but she was forced to stand up in front of the entire Sqn by the CO, apologise for her failures then sit back down. Good luck those in the P8 world, she's coming your way next.......

 

[Barch]

Why the fúck are they ranking people in a local environment when the promotion board is looking service wide at the rank & trade?

Cpl X at A Sqn might be number 1 on his sqn but might only number 3 on B Sqn.

Sounds like an Armyism where people are promoted locally to fill local posts.

 

[unruly1986]

Used to happen at a certain unit in Cyprus. I think they judged pan-island, tri service and multi trade.

As long as the ROs have backbones and there is no quota system it can work to both advantage and disadvantage you depending on where you sit.

Best thing you can do is have a gleaming front page and provide buckets of evidence to your RO.

 

[busby1971]

A certain unit in Cyprus used to ration out the recs and numbers, surprisingly those in the HQ were more likely to get treated better than those at the outposts.

Personnally told I could have the Spec, but it would be the worse one ever written or I could have a brilliant High that would be supported by all.


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[techie_tubby]

What you have just described is an MPAR not a board.


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[ady eflog]

Back in eighteen oatcake, on the old 6442's at a twin peaked hangar at St Athan the power crazy boss thought no one was good enough for 9's so the top J/T got a pair of 8's and everyone filed off under him. That ruined a lot of people for a few years. Today not much has changed when it's got to the point where I can't write an SJAR on JPA without the 2nd RO reading it first in word and changing it to how he wants it! surely its my opinion of the fella and if he wants to write it he fri66ing can!

 

[rocket scientist]

On my SJAR course we were warned against the overuse of "SAC/Cpl Bloggs is at the top of his game" because there have been cases of several reports from the same sections all claiming that different individuals are at the top of their game and if the board pick up on this then the credibility of those reports goes out the window.

Maybe it does make some kind of sense to get everyone's story straight?

 

[ShabbyCabby]

I was based at the MCTC 2013-15. Not through choice I might add, on promotion and our trade were nominated to send a pressed man.

This unit is dominated by the Military Provost Staff (MPS) who also serve at custody facilities in Bulford, Catterick etc. Each year the stick carriers of the MPS (the place was littered with WO2s almost all who had an over inflated opinion of themselves) and the Ruperts all got together to agree the SJAR pecking order for the entire Corps; something like 120 personnel maybe. Much to the attached RAF staffs horror they also included us and our RN brethren in the MPS 'chart' run down of 120-1; it was also described as top, middle or bottom third in our reports.

There was little chance of competing with our MPS peers due to our relatively short tour lengths (18 months usually) and we were not permitted to do additional custody focussed courses such as Control and Restraint instruction as there would be no return of service. It was hard to rise and I started off - to my disgust - in the bottom third.

I had been warned by the chap I replaced I had better prepare myself for my career to 'die'.

I just could not get my head round why we were included in the mass grading and felt hamstrung from the off with the odds stacked against us. It became quite an emotive topic but no matter what discussions were had with the CoC there was still an insistence to keep us within 1-120 and comment on it.

I extended and completed a 3 year stint as I really enjoyed working with the detainees and left with 'sitting comfortably in the top third of the MPS' on my SJAR.

I gleaned from my experience this mass grading is the norm in the Army. I also realised how under-performing chief scnebbers and sycophants really carve out a good career for themselves in the MPS and eventually carry a stick and one day commission.

 

[Madeinstoke]

This is becoming becoming more prevalent in the RAF following the Army but for totally the wrong reasons. In a line Regiment the Company and Regimental execs will meet and argue out who will be promoted next. The results from the latest cadre are also taken into consideration. This could be argued as fair as they are all being graded on a level playing field. I have however witnessed everyone in the meeting agreeing that Cpl X was the best in the regiment and had performed fantastically on ops. All was going well for the lad until the RSM piped up "I will not have that mans wife in my Mess". There was no further discussion.

I have worked in a unit where both RO's reports in word and the subjects first page have had to be sent up to be looked at. The excuse was Sqn bosses want to have a idea where everyone was sitting and monitor the quality of reports leaving the unit.

I have no problem with this, or with receiving advice how to alter what I have written to improve it. However, if you are pressured to change the tenet of a report to be totally different to what you feel, a set of bollocks are required.