Meanwhile in London....

[ninjarabbi]

Yes there is. People are going on about the lack of social distancing on these parades and they shouldn't be going ahead but there was a deadly silence when people celebrated VE day.

Why was their a statue of a slave owner in this day and age.

IIRC, ISIS pulled down statues they didn’t like. We live in a civilised country. If you don’t like something you can use proper channels, you don’t form a f**king mob and just do what you want.

 

[ninjarabbi]

I guess all that kneeling didn’t do the job then...

 

[Oldstacker]

Why was their a statue of a slave owner in this day and age.

The statue wasn't there because he was a slave owner - the statue commemorated the good that he did. I know his money came from a trade we now know to be abhorrent but ultimately much of it was put to good use. There are very very few people in history, or living, who are unequivocally good, everybody has or had their dark side, what is important is that they are known and remembered for everything good or bad. Trying to expunge them from consciousness is ultimately wiping the memory of the bad that they did as well as the good.

 

[Tin basher]

I see a hammer and sickle symbol next to the ACAB motif on Robert peels statue. So are they saying the former east German Stasi, the Chinese MSS and KGB are ACAB. I do hope not, that nice President Xi Jinping or the equally lovely Mr Putin might take exception to such sentiments

 

[justintime129]

So your specific link to these protests, with some elements of unnecessary damage and violence, of thousands of people for something that didn’t happen over here, is the fact that smaller jovial groups broke the rules once they’d had a few.

Wasn’t the prosperity of Liverpool based on the slave trade, what with it being a handy port for travelling to the Americas.

It's nothing of the sort, I don't condone the violence but it's the hypocrisy of people saying these marches should not of gone ahead due to breaking social distancing rules. So it's okay then for small jovial crowds to break social

Im not going to argue that Liverpool made its money on the back of the slave trade but you won't find any statues to slave traders.

 

[ninjarabbi]

I see a hammer and sickle symbol next to the ACAB motif on Robert peels statue. So are they saying the former east German Stasi, the Chinese MSS and KGB are ACAB. I do hope not, that nice President Xi Jinping or the equally lovely Mr Putin might take exception to such sentiments

I wonder how those two ‘gentlemen’ would deal with these rioters? Can you see their police kneeling in front of the crowds?

 

[justintime129]

The statue wasn't there because he was a slave owner - the statue commemorated the good that he did. I know his money came from a trade we now know to be abhorrent but ultimately much of it was put to good use. There are very very few people in history, or living, who are unequivocally good, everybody has or had their dark side, what is important is that they are known and remembered for everything good or bad. Trying to expunge them from consciousness is ultimately wiping the memory of the bad that they did as well as the good.

Stop trying to rewite history he made his money from the slave trade, anything he did with it was dirty money. Should we have a statue of Jimmy Saville in Leeds after all he did loads of charitable work.

 

[ninjarabbi]

I see the peaceful protesters have started attacking the police again. I wonder if Boris, Priti or Cressida would like to have a go at doing their jobs?

I am watching a video on Twitter of a group of 20 police officers literally running from a mob. Not a single one has a baton, shield or protective gear. I see protesters are now also stopping traffic on the M6. Can anyone tell me what happened to the rule of law in this country?

 

[Oldstacker]

It's nothing of the sort, I don't condone the violence but it's the hypocrisy of people saying these marches should not of gone ahead due to breaking social distancing rules. So it's okay then for small jovial crowds to break social

Im not going to argue that Liverpool made its money on the back of the slave trade but you won't find any statues to slave traders.

Maybe none of the slave traders in Liverpool did anything positive with the money that would lead to anyone wanting to commemorate them?

 

[ninjarabbi]

I’ll leave this here...

 

[Oldstacker]

Stop trying to rewite history he made his money from the slave trade, anything he did with it was dirty money. Should we have a statue of Jimmy Saville in Leeds after all he did loads of charitable work.

I'm not trying to rewrite history at all - it's a fact that he made his money in a way that is now unacceptable; it is also a fact that he used a lot of that money for the good of Bristol and for charity. That statue isn't a recent addition to the city but one erected in 1895 when times were different and the good that he did was seen as better than the harm. Jimmy Saville was unmasked as an evil sod very soon after his death, at a time when his good works (and he did do some) were still being praised and could have led to a more public memorial. I would happily have seen the statue removed by legitimate means (not mob rule) and certainly wouldn't support memorial to Saville.

 

[justintime129]

Maybe none of the slave traders in Liverpool did anything positive with the money that would lead to anyone wanting to commemorate them?

Think on this

...........,
How you feel about that statue is how you feel about slavery. Don't let anyone pretend otherwise.

 

[justintime129]

I'm not trying to rewrite history at all - it's a fact that he made his money in a way that is now unacceptable; it is also a fact that he used a lot of that money for the good of Bristol and for charity. That statue isn't a recent addition to the city but one erected in 1895 when times were different and the good that he did was seen as better than the harm. Jimmy Saville was unmasked as an evil sod very soon after his death, at a time when his good works (and he did do some) were still being praised and could have led to a more public memorial. I would happily have seen the statue removed by legitimate means (not mob rule) and certainly wouldn't support memorial to Saville.

The people of Bristol have been campaigning to have it removed for years.

 

[ninjarabbi]

Statues remind us of the past, both good and bad. What’s next, book burning?

 

[Oldstacker]

The people of Bristol have been campaigning to have it removed for years.

And i wouldn't have argued against a decision to remove it, however in this country we don't have government (local or national) by mob rule.....

 

[busby1971]

Stop trying to rewite history he made his money from the slave trade, anything he did with it was dirty money. Should we have a statue of Jimmy Saville in Leeds after all he did loads of charitable work.

Well you’ve been on Twitter today then havent you, that argument has been copied and posted from there.

Shock, the journey the UK led to get to today may have had some unpleasantness along the way, what is significant is that where times changed so did we, and we tended to be early adopters and drivers.

There are no innocents when it comes to the slave trade, a trade that continues today in parts of the globe, parts of the globe where white skinned people don’t own the train set.

 

[ninjarabbi]

Anyone still trust the BBC’s reporting?

 

[busby1971]

The people of Bristol have been campaigning to have it removed for years.

Dont you mean ”Some people”

 

[justintime129]

Well you’ve been on Twitter today then havent you, that argument has been copied and posted from there.

Shock, the journey the UK led to get to today may have had some unpleasantness along the way, what is significant is that where times changed so did we, and we tended to be early adopters and drivers.

There are no innocents when it comes to the slave trade, a trade that continues today in parts of the globe, parts of the globe where white skinned people don’t own the train set.

yes we were early adapters, and we can't rewrite history but it still doesn't make it right that we have a statue of a slave trader responsible for the deaths of thousands, even if he became a philanthropist.

 

[busby1971]

yes we were early adapters, and we can't rewrite history but it still doesn't make it right that we have a statue of a slave trader responsible for the deaths of thousands, even if he became a philanthropist.

By acknowledging our history we go on to do better things And not do the bad things, anyway, the slave trade wasn’t racist.