Lions, Donkeys and Dinosaurs

[Bluntend]

The following question was recently put to the Deputy Chief of Defence Logistics, in 'Ask DCDL' - a quarterly service enabling DLO personnel to submit a question via e-mail to Tim Flesher, Deputy Chief of Defence Logistics, that he will answer personally. The Questions and his answers are then published.

Question:
Can I ask whether the DLO Board is aware of a recently-published book entitled "Lions, Donkeys and Dinosaurs: Waste and Blundering in the Armed Forces"? Written by a former naval officer who left the service in 2004, it is highly critical of the DLO, the DPA and indeed many other elements of the MOD and the armed forces.

The DLO's entry in the book's glossary reads:

Vast, inefficient bureaucracy created by nominally amalgamating the three armed services' logistics empires during the 1990s. Almost the only noticeable effect has been the appearance of another level of extremely senior uniformed management above the three single-service chieftains, and the slashing of stores holdings in line with commercial "just enough, just in time" efficiency principles. This has permitted the firing of numbers of inexpensive warehousemen and the sale of large amounts of defence real estate but has not addressed the gigantic, slothful middle-ranking bureaucracy which was the real problem. Much of the DLO's management consists of serving or former uniformed officers but its 30 000 rank and file are mostly civil servants.

Another paragraph on the DLO states:

And the story isn't any better with logistics, as anyone with recent experience of the Defence Logistics Organisation will tell you. Perhaps the DLO might be a bit more helpful if its boss gave a hoot what other forces people thought of him. As he is currently a four-star air marshal, and thus has no need to consider the opinions of anyone below ministerial rank, the often slothful and bloody-minded bean-counters of the DLO seem unlikely to mend their ways.

Do you share my concern that, firstly, a former customer of the DLO has formed such a low opinion of the organisation and, secondly, that this opinion is now being disseminated to the public at large - particularly those with an active interest in Defence matters?

The DCDL replied that he was aware of the book but, not having read it, not of the colourful quotes about the DLO.

Answer:

I am not sure how much first hand experience the author has of the issues to which he refers but clearly I would much rather such stories did not appear, particularly when, as in this case, they are a travesty of the truth. But if I have learned anything in 30 years in the civil service it is that bad news sells newspapers, not balanced accounts of the facts. I do think, however, we should be more upfront about publicising our successes, of which our IPTs have many.

I am also confident that the dismissive views of the then Junior Naval Officer who wrote the book are not shared by those officers in the armed forces who are responsible for delivering operations around the world. And for evidence of that, consult the articles written by the former Vice Chief in the June 05 DLO News and former Commander in Chief Fleet in the November 05 DLO News.

I find it worrying that the DCDL considers the author's views of the DLO and DPA to be 'dismissive'. I think it is safe to say the if it’s evidence of how the DLO and DPA are performing, articles written by the Vice Chief and former CinC Fleet are hardly going to be impartial. It’s ironic that the DCDL has, if anything reinforced the views put forward in the book. He suggests that the only people who really know what’s going on (and whose opinions matter the most) are the most senior ranking officers and civil servants within the Defence Procurement and Defence Logistics Organisations. The DCDL, evidently has little regard for opinions of the rank and file desk officers whose job it is to try and make the DLO and DPA work often whilst fighting against a tide of bureaucracy, red tape, cut backs and constant change (which is not the same as continuous improvement).

 

[Plumber]

But isn't the whole point of places like Wyton to create jobs for the boys? How else are we going to achieve the target of 1 air ranker for every aircraft in the airforce? Remember this is peoples livelihoods and cushy pensions we're talking here.DT_Xtremez_25:

 

[Beerofund]

Truth hurts!

Truth hurts!

But isn't the whole point of places like Wyton to create jobs for the boys? How else are we going to achieve the target of 1 air ranker for every aircraft in the airforce? Remember this is peoples livelihoods and cushy pensions we're talking here.DT_Xtremez_25:

Plumber

You have such a cynical view!

 

[Stax]

This very book was aired on the Arrse some time ago. Funnily enough, when senior Army officers were asked to comment, the answers were very similar. Bureaucracy of any type gradually builds itself up from within, by each area claiming to be more important than the whole, we end up with a Hydra. Its a sad state of affairs that under Lean and S&T (in my trade) we are centralising everything in order to save manpower, the theory being that if everything is in the same place there is no need for all the previous slots. Mathematics and logic dictates that moving a lot of things into one place doesn't make the task any less, it just puts it in one place!

 

[budgie]

When DLO was formed

When DLO was formed

I remember when the DLO was formed. All the three services Debts were put together. This resulted in quite a large amount in the red, no extra money was forthcoming to cover this debt.
Now I work in 2nd line at a FJ establishment in the east. When all this happened the first thing we noticed was a complete inability to get spares. Nothing new there, we just robbed from Bond. Then, when our test sets went belly up, we could not get OCS's actioned. We could raise them, but as no money was going into the contracts, nothing was getting repaired. This went on for about six months.
I find this personally depressing. We were getting it in the necks from the Sqn's for not producing boxes that were needed to maintain the flying program back here and on exercises. I didn't see it having mush effect on ops as you would just rob jets back here.
I like to think of myself as professional, and do try my hardest to ensure that the Lineys get the stuff they need. However with the current system of getting 'S' components (robbing), this is only storing up trouble. No amount of Lean, Management, or reduction in flying will sort this out. As I say to the Lineys now, we can only produce what we can receive from 3rd line. With contracts now in place with industry taking on work in ASF's, where will the priorities lie?

 

[monobrow]

if you mean the "pulse" line thatsbeing set up in the swamps, heard through the grapevine that S boxes will be given to the pulse line OVER the sqns, even to the point that sqns will rob stuff to satisfy the pulse. What kind of backwards idea is that!!!!!

 

[Bluntend]

if you mean the "pulse" line thatsbeing set up in the swamps, heard through the grapevine that S boxes will be given to the pulse line OVER the sqns, even to the point that sqns will rob stuff to satisfy the pulse. What kind of backwards idea is that!!!!!

The same kind of backwards idea that diverts spares to the pulse line and away from the Rutland based, single engined, fast (ish) jet Sqn tasked with deploying on Ops in, for example, Afghanistan. It seems contractual success is now more important than operational success.

 

[budgie]

On the grapevine also, kites leaving the shed still have all the lims that they went in with! Why are they being accepted?

 

[Mug?]

Eurofighter

Eurofighter

I imagine all the supply (stores?) problems have been sorted out with the new eurofighter. You can always count on those civil servants and high rankers to strike a good deal for a full and plentifull supply of spares for such a prestigous aircraft.
Or am I being overconfident in their overpaid abilities???

 

[Bluntend]

On the grapevine also, kites leaving the shed still have all the lims that they went in with! Why are they being accepted?

Well, I have it on very good authority that this happens with at least one ac that we have outsourced maintenance for. Because the original contract didn't cover(because that'd cost too much) all the varying snags that could be Lim'd, in order to get the contractor to do the work req'd to remove the Lim costs an absolute chuffing fortune because its outside the contract, hence the Lim is still there when the ac returns to the Sqn. If this sounds like a good way of doing things to anybody I'd be keen to hear their views.

As an aside, the RAAF hire corporate lawyers to assist in the writing of contracts, hence they get ripped off by industry less frequently. Perhaps if we spent less money employing the services of 'consultants' and spent the money on getting some corporate lawyers to vet our contracts we'd find ourselves in a much better position when negotiating with industry for support. Right now, we have inexperienced Sqn Ldr and Flt Lt engineer and suppliers with zero experience of how to negotiate a contract agreement (aside from an hours lecture during either EST or SOT) going in to bat against the likes of BAES, RR, Boeing, etc, etc. Is it any wonder that we're in the state we're in?

 

[budgie]

What a mess.DT_Xtremez_38:

 

[Stax]

I imagine all the supply (stores?) problems have been sorted out with the new eurofighter. You can always count on those civil servants and high rankers to strike a good deal for a full and plentifull supply of spares for such a prestigous aircraft.
Or am I being overconfident in their overpaid abilities???

Hmmmmmmm, do you want us to answer this? Trolling or Journo, not sure about you Mr Mug!

 

[Twonston Pickle]

Definately a Journo; we would never have used "civil servants and High Rankers", more like Civil serpants and lordships. His terminology is a few years behind and smells like an "educated" red-top rodent.

 

[penguinspotter]

Troll or not, he's definitely barking up the right tree. Something's rotten east of the Witham.

 

[Mug?]

So quick to judge..

So quick to judge..

Sorry to disapoint but I'm fully signed up, for the next few years at least.DT_Xtremez_15:

Was being a bit cryptic /sarcastic to be honest as I wheely wouldn't want to stir things up

We have seen it all before, no money for infrastructure and the things we keep asking for. Instead chucking money and losing manpower and skills to contracts that we end up having to cover to meet the expectations from up high. I know they are starting to realise we can't do everything any more, but the more we pass on to the guy in their civvies and agencies/ organisations the more we despair and lose fath in the chain to pass our requests and opinions up.

Well I must go and get things squared away, sort my admin out (myself with JPA) and other 'upto date' expressions!!

 

[Hu Jardon]

What???

What???

You sound even less genuine now

 

[TheHogwartsBEngO]

Troll or not, he's definitely barking up the right tree. Something's rotten east of the Witham.

Oh my prophetic soul!

What? The serpants that did steal our jobs now wear our crowns?

DT_Xtremez_28:

Sorry - couldn't help picking up on the Hamlet quotes there. I must be cruel only to be kind...