Lean

[230Tiger]

OK, following on from the LEAN posts. Lets have a vote.

Please don't just jump in and vote. Think for a moment before answering.

Oh dearDT_Xtremez_42:

 

[vim_fuego]

are you going to put up a poll??

 

[230Tiger]

Hang on, this is the first time I've done this!

Said the actress to the bishop!

 

[Tashy_Man]

LEAN...They want it....Dont know how to get it...Cut jobs/posts...no aircraft servicable ???...they dont know why......any ideas ?

 

[vim_fuego]

Where I work we have lost so much manpower in the last 10 months that if just one person were to have an accident/go sick for more than a day then I have no idea what we are to do...Its not as if somebody can just step in and help due to clearances and qualification...I'm on duty for 84 hours in a 7 day period...if the person following on from me goes kaput am I to keep on going?

 

[UpLander]

The idea behind LEAN is good in theory, and thats where it falls down. For instance, where I worked before, the new system took all the special tools out of the tool stores and put them in the hangar slots that used them, to save the techies from having to walk to stores and back every time they needed the special tool. However, more than 1 slot often needed that special tool. This is when, according to LEAN, a new special tool would be bought for each slot that needed it. Cue the RAF who would never stump up the cash to buy new said special tools, leaving the techies to now have to constantly search the hangar for the tool instead of knowing that it was in stores, in doing so waste even more time than before!! So in theory LEAN works, its just the tight fisted air ranks that won't support their own idea with the money needed for it to work.....

Rant over, going to lie down.......DT_Xtremez_35:

 

[MattBombHead]

From a 2nd line engineers point of view, LEAN works fairly well (or a least in our bay it does). Equipment come comes in, gets broken down, cleaned up, serviced, reassembled, and tested. All the tools for each Stage are on the bench, along with the most commonly used items.

HOWEVER, I just cann't see how it work on a Sqn. What would you do? Have yhe most common snag fixing gear and tools in different HAS's, and when the jocky calls in, depending on what snags hes got, decides which HAS he goes to?

Just my thoughts you understand....DT_Xtremez_08:

 

[UpLander]

From a 2nd line engineers point of view, LEAN works fairly well (or a least in our bay it does). Equipment come comes in, gets broken down, cleaned up, serviced, reassembled, and tested. All the tools for each Stage are on the bench, along with the most commonly used items.

HOWEVER, I just cann't see how it work on a Sqn. What would you do? Have yhe most common snag fixing gear and tools in different HAS's, and when the jocky calls in, depending on what snags hes got, decides which HAS he goes to?

Just my thoughts you understand....DT_Xtremez_08:

It's a very valid point MBH, having worked on a Harrier Sqn (the best mind not the PR sqn or AC/DC lot!!) it's very hard to see how LEAN can work when you have to pack the minimum tools for a deployment to Afghanistan every few months. But then we are far away from the air ranks cosy little ivory towers, so see no evil, hear no evil.

I really must go and have a lie down, blood pressure mounting higher than Everest!!

 

[MattBombHead]

It's a very valid point MBH, having worked on a Harrier Sqn (the best mind not the PR sqn or AC/DC lot!!) it's very hard to see how LEAN can work when you have to pack the minimum tools for a deployment to Afghanistan every few months.

Fair point, I haven't worked 1st line in a while, so cann't really comment....

 

[I look like Bruce Willis]

Good to at last see a sensible thread on E-Goat. It makes a change from the normal drivel regarding a dancing sausage. If I had my way the only avatars available would be the rank based ones like mine, and then you would know how important each persons post really was.

 

[MattBombHead]

Good to at last see a sensible thread on E-Goat. It makes a change from the normal drivel regarding a dancing sausage. If i had my way the only avatars available would be the rank based ones like mine, and then you would know how important each persons post really was.

Right, just popping off to change my avatar, don't want to be associated with this pr!ck!!

DT_Xtremez_25:

 

[Billy Whizz]

LEAN worked for certain sections and some processes but in other areas it was a complete fcuk up!

I did a RIE and we got some positives out of it - despite being led in a certain direction all the time by those on high!

Trouble was the LEAN consultants thought we could change everything to suit and that was just impossible.

Bays and 2nd Line perhaps benefitted from LEAN in more ways than 1st Line but the whole issue could and should have been thought through and implemented better with hierarchy actually listening the the guys on the ground who know what the fcuk is actually going on! Too many people used it as a means to better their career prospects then ran away when it went to rat sh1t!

 

[rest have risen above me]

LEAN works when applied in the correct manner and when the task suits the methodology but some person somewhere came up with the idea of applying it to tasks that can't support the systems it introduces. There in lies the problem add to that the auth system we employ for aicraft tasks and hey presto unworkable conditions.
They quite happily cut you manpower because one person can do the job adequately but don't take into account that when he's sick/leave a replacement with the required auths must take over. Unfotunately his replacement hasn't had time to get those auths because his task has been LEAN'd as well. There seems to be a bit of a spiral forming here. Perhaps if we looked at the whole instead of the parts we might get it right....

 

[MattBombHead]

They quite happily cut you manpower because one person can do the job adequately but don't take into account that when he's sick/leave a replacement with the required auths must take over. Unfotunately his replacement hasn't had time to get those auths because his task has been LEAN'd as well.

And don't forget, bloke A will be going out area, or on guard, so whos going to cover his job? Bloke B has his own job to do.....?

DT_Xtremez_06:

 

[Scaley brat]

Think I made my feelings quite clear Here I shan't repost it all again. Incidentally to save you checking, I voted for complete and utter waste of time and money.

 

[JAFAD666]

It would be wrong of me to comment or vote on LEAN because I haven`t experienced it yet. When this tour finishes I no doubt will.
However if my 23 years have taught me anything about "time and motion" , "total quality assurance" , and now "LEAN" it`s this. The are all based on comerce and products. We are an armed force not a business. Yes we deliver the defence of the UK but no-one actually hands over money for it at the till.
They are usually embraced by people bucking for promotion or about to leave for a civvy career. Explain to me why this particular one is the 'Holy Grail" when we`ve used then discarded the others.
My guess is someone some where, high up, is about to write a thesis for his PhD.

 

[Scaley brat]

Good to at last see a sensible thread on E-Goat. It makes a change from the normal drivel regarding a dancing sausage. If I had my way the only avatars available would be the rank based ones like mine, and then you would know how much of a nob each person really was.

Off Topic That's a hell of an admission there Bruce way to go ****** look I'm clapping with one hand Off Topic.

Back on topic.
I really don't understand why people put such faith in these funny inbred college boy ideas. We have a job to do. Yes it's expensive, but what do they expect. Our boys are putting their lives at risk to enforce foreign policy for our elected leaders. I really don't think it's to much to ask that they be supplied with better equipment and more of it. If you really want to lean the Air Force, why don't you stop repackaging brand new spares. triple bagging little things like bolts and rivets. I worked in a third line bay and quite often I had to open individual bags of cherry rivets. We ALL know ways the Air Force can save cash. We ALL know ways they will never use:
NCO pilots (Worked in WWII), why do they have to be officers ?
have Sqn ldrs running squadrons.
Take a few of the run down airfields, flatten them and build custom built hangars for their various Aircraft types and better blocks and quarters for the work force. then sell some of the London area sites to developers to pay for it.
This might not be popular, but it would save more money than LEAN ever will new buildings=lower maintenance costs and lower running costs.

Think about it !!

 

[230Tiger]

have Sqn ldrs running squadrons

Radical.

1. The people who fly the aircraft = Pilot/Flying officers or NCO pilots (with a sliding pay scale to reflect years service)
2. When they command a flight = Flight Lieutenant
3. When they command a Squadron = Squadron Leader
4. When they command a Wing = Wing Commander

How much money would that save??

 

[MattBombHead]

Radical.

1. The people who fly the aircraft = Pilot/Flying officers or NCO pilots (with a sliding pay scale to reflect years service)
2. When they command a flight = Flight Lieutenant
3. When they command a Squadron = Squadron Leader
4. When they command a Wing = Wing Commander

How much money would that save??

Blimey, that is radical!!!!!

However, i doubt it'd get past the thought police......DT_Xtremez_21:

 

[230Tiger]

Well, only one person so far thinks it's the best thing the RAF have done in years.

Mind you, it was a bit predictable that Mr LEAN would vote that way.

Isn't there anyone else out there think the same then?