Lean

[wgaf]

Supersquip, have a chat with any stacker or engineer about lean, the bottom line is for the RAF the shoe don't fit. Lean was USED not thought up by toyota, toyota are a profit making company, the RAF are not, we are here not to make money, not even to draw even, but as a necessary drain on tax resources. Lean was introduced into the RAF by high ranking personnel who were interested only in the next step on the career ladder, it doesn't work at the coal face full stop.
Mind you if you read up about lean what the RAF has got is absolutely feck all like the original it's just a cheap basardization of it, no real suprises there then!

 

[supersquip]

please refere to my ammended post belive me im not trying to sasy lean is good far from it id rather visit a dentist than be screwed.............sorry leaned again i was trying to be sarcastic but it came out all wrong blooody compurter !!

 

[wgaf]

please refere to my ammended post belive me im not trying to sasy lean is good far from it id rather visit a dentist than be screwed.............sorry leaned again i was trying to be sarcastic but it came out all wrong blooody compurter !!

We've all had the alcohol/computer problem fella DT_Xtremez_28:

 

[kenhurren@blueyonder.co.u]

Decisions by the Management!!!!

Decisions by the Management!!!!

Well my friend Pan Warrior in answer to your problem about FS, WO's and Off's saying NO..............................they can't it's impossible for them because I have found that you can only say no if you have a SPINE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Realist78]

Lean

Well my friend Pan Warrior in answer to your problem about FS, WO's and Off's saying NO..............................they can't it's impossible for them because I have found that you can only say no if you have a SPINE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Whilst that may be so in a large number of cases, I have never had a problem saying no, admittedly, it's cost me about 6 - 10 years on the old promotion ladder but I can sleep at night (quite soundly if Mrs R is to be heard!)::

 

[Pan Warrior]

20 odd years

20 odd years

Well my friend Pan Warrior in answer to your problem about FS, WO's and Off's saying NO..............................they can't it's impossible for them because I have found that you can only say no if you have a SPINE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

its took me 20 odd years to get to J/T but i never chomped on the pink missile, and i can honestly look in the mirror @ night and say i never licked any cnuts arse. Even now over in area 51 we still have junior jengos, and f/s pushing to get there tate and lyle, push on push on, i know we have no manpower, no spares and no kit, but crack on and look outside the envelope.
I think and god forbid it happens it will take a smoking hole.

 

[wobbly]

Supersquip, have a chat with any stacker or engineer about lean, the bottom line is for the RAF the shoe don't fit. Lean was USED not thought up by toyota, toyota are a profit making company, the RAF are not, we are here not to make money, not even to draw even, but as a necessary drain on tax resources. Lean was introduced into the RAF by high ranking personnel who were interested only in the next step on the career ladder, it doesn't work at the coal face full stop.
Mind you if you read up about lean what the RAF has got is absolutely feck all like the original it's just a cheap basardization of it, no real surprises there then!

At least that LEAN facilitator, aka "the bearded gimp" from Simpler is a lot richer.....is he still doing the rounds?

 

[MrMasher]

Oh dear.........looks like I am about to stand out from the crowd again!

I think LEAN works, well a form of it anyway. As someone said, we've been doing it for years anyway.

You have to adapt it to suit if you follow the 'principles'

Of course the factory type ideas wont work too well on sqn's but surely its up to the people involved to implement something suitable. If they dont, they are seriously failing in what they are trying to achieve.

Part of the problem is also an age old problem we have always had. People letting others play with their train set! How can you implement and integrate ideas when childish officers say no its my train set!

Another part of the problem is ignorance and the "we've always done it this way" brigade. Well if it works and there is no wasted effort whatsoever, then I fully understand that there is no need for change for changes sake.

So many are resistant to change and seem to take it as a personal slur that their way of work is wrong. Thats not it. Thats not what this is about.

I understand the gripes about the astronomical amounts of cash going to simpler. I fully agree, why should we pay someone for doing this? And it does seem coincidental with redundancies and cuts.

What I would like to see is a more efficient store system (here comes abuse I expect!). How do we end up going D state on simple items we should have in stock. How much is awaiting re-contract? It's not the suppliers fault, its the way the whole thing is run. Surely a good supplier could address this given the chance?

How about the JAP? Wouldnt it be good to be able to change it to suit us and our very differing work areas? We dont all work on the same a/c and same base. JAP seems to think so half the time. Wouldnt it be good to change the tool tag system to suit our individual place of work. Have the policy in the local eng orders rather than taken from the JAP.

It seems where we could make the most change and implementation of ideas is too high above us. And obviously if it were to happen that the higher ups get leaned you wouldnt find average joe up there on the vsa or rapid improvement event!

To me it seems as the managment of LEAN has seriously failed and the bad name of it is now passed around without anyone giving it a go.

 

[Pan Warrior]

hey masher

hey masher

Hey mr masher
when you went into the LEAN event did you look into the pen type device the blokes in sun glasses were holding..!!!! ok masher now all the world loves lean go out and spread the word, lean is good, lean is here to help us, lean will make the garden rosey....

 

[TrenchardsLoveSock]

I'll have to join the fence sitters on this one.

My personal experience of being LEAN is actually quite good. I joined a new 2 man team that was stood up with a Simpler led week and it all went very well. No manpower was cut, and an awful lot of duplicate effort throughout the chain was identified and cut to a minimum. If all LEAN was done like this then there would be a lot less resistance to it.

BUT...

I remember one chat with the Simpler bloke that summed up one of the main problems with LEAN;

Simpler: So TLS, you've just received this gen from the Sqn, what do you do with it?
TLS: I action it as required.
Simpler: What, there and then?
TLS: As long as I've got nothing else more pressing on, yes.
Simpler: But why, it contributes to your output at the end of the month so you should wait until then.
TLS: So I'm supposed to do nothing all day/week/month and then run around like a blue arsed fly for two days?
Simpler: Yes.
TLS: How LEAN is paying me to do fcuk all for 3 and a 1/2 weeks each month then?
Simpler: Anyway, moving on!


This is exactly why LEAN won't ever work in a reactive environment. I tried getting some advice off the ECU bay at my old place to find that they were all off because they had required number of 'S' ECUs ready out the back and couldn't do anything with the 'U/S' ones until the 'S' stock went down::/:

Two weeks later all of our aircraft came back from their first stint in the sandy place and we had to go state for enginesDT_Xtremez_25:

 

[Late & Tired]

Well my friend Pan Warrior in answer to your problem about FS, WO's and Off's saying NO..............................they can't it's impossible for them because I have found that you can only say no if you have a SPINE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Aha - would this be the same KH that I met during my holidays on MSAT at Tossford? - I recall during the course you had a few gripes about management...nice to see you airing them in public. One question though - what have YOU done about it? -and what did your boss's say when you mentioned this to them

Speak and hide, or speak and do?
Double standards.....

 

[MrMasher]

Hey mr masher
when you went into the LEAN event did you look into the pen type device the blokes in sun glasses were holding..!!!! ok masher now all the world loves lean go out and spread the word, lean is good, lean is here to help us, lean will make the garden rosey....

Nope.

We were the first place to get leaned at my camp and it happened in 2003.
Because we had no experience or knowledge of it we went into it open eyed instead of having the blinkered view most places have now.
We made some good changes and the place was better.
If I could have done anything different it would have been to change the JAP and sort out the spares we needed. We did try but were told we couldnt question or alter the JAP and IPT said they would "try" to resolve our spares issues and they never did.
Also the way we fitted into the grand scheme of things could have been implemented better. Problem was, when everyone got leaned and the whole pulse/pull systems were in place it was evident that no one thought about how all the different pieces fit together. Trying to highlight a better way of doing it then was even worse because everyone was running round shouting how nothing worked instead of sitting down and speaking with other sections etc.

I just think I am grown up and intelligent enough to look at LEAN with a view to adapting it to suit instead of following it to the letter and then blaming everyone else for it!

I do believe however that it has been implemented wrongly. The higher up management have consistently poo pooed the good ideas and highlighting of problems from the lads on the shop floor. It would appear that they just try to make political points and they should be taken to hand for it.