Lance Cpls in the RAF?

[avtur por homme]

Bimbling round camp the other day I passed a couple of rocks heading the other way, it was only after I had passed them that I realised one of them was wearing Lance Cpl slides, after thinking about it for a while I decided Id been seeing things and forgot about it-till today when I saw him again and got a good chance to check-definatley RAF Reg (mudguards and stable belt with buckle)and definatley wearing Lance Cpl slides (dpm ones mind)!
So anyone shed any light on this? Is this a new thing in the RAF or is just a Reg thing or ?

 

[Shinyscot]

Fcuk me. Thats all we need.

 

[MadMouse]

For god's sake, don't let penguin see this thread - he'll start thinking he could reach the level of excellence that was/is JT! :raf:

 

[avtur por homme]

well lets hope it doesnt turn into that kind of slagging match as I really am intrigued by this-especialy in this day and age of trying to turn us into the army!

 

[Dark Angel]

may be a trial

may be a trial

My hubby's a rock and as far as I know It has been suggested but not approved. At the moment they have a 2IC of a section who is an longer standing SAC. I'll see if I can find out anything more.

 

[snowball1]

How can u have lance jacks, when halton dont do the courses?

 

[Chaka]

All you have to remember is the Barmy Army rank structure is one below the Royal Air Force because they are so thick, bless.

If you saw a Rock wearing L/Cpl rank slides he is an SAC who probably has to work with Army chimps and is trying to get a bit higher up the ****e ladder than a Pvt.

Both are still cannon fodder mind, and said individual should have done better at School.DT_Xtremez_28:

 

[ROTORHEAD]

Jack Technician

Jack Technician

Perhaps if this gets the nod for the Rocks, we could get it brought in for fully spammed up SAC techs. Instead of the circled 3 bladed prop, they could wear a lance jacks stripe with a four bladed prop above it and what could they call it? Lance or Junior Technician perhaps.
"Full wheel reinvention kits available at RAF.co.uk!"

 

[avtur por homme]

For many years it was argued that JT's were the equal of Lance jacks (they even earned the same money) But the rank of JT was disbanded and one of the reasons stated was to simplify the rank structure within RAF.
So if Lance Jack is introduced where do they stand-above or equal to JT's (they are still out there in many technical trades) and the newer SAC Tech's, would JT's have to go through another rank to get a promotion?
I know this is all hypothetical but it seems it would just add even more confusion to an already quirky rank structure and remove another part of the RAF's identity, although I could see the reasoning behind it-to help give the RAF lower ranks more of an equal footing in an army dominated world.

 

[snowball1]

For many years it was argued that JT's were the equal of Lance jacks (they even earned the same money) But the rank of JT was disbanded and one of the reasons stated was to simplify the rank structure within RAF.
So if Lance Jack is introduced where do they stand-above or equal to JT's (they are still out there in many technical trades) and the newer SAC Tech's, would JT's have to go through another rank to get a promotion?
I know this is all hypothetical but it seems it would just add even more confusion to an already quirky rank structure and remove another part of the RAF's identity, although I could see the reasoning behind it-to help give the RAF lower ranks more of an equal footing in an army dominated world.

Lance jack is a jnco, j/t isnt

 

[auchtermuchty]

JT insignia used to be a single stripe.

it was changed when the nco responsibilities were removed

 

[student-grant]

Lance jack is a jnco, j/t isnt

depends what branch of the army you work in

if your in reme/army aviation then lance jack is much the same as an lac/sac in the raf and not classed as a jnco

in the tech world of the army the rank is broken down to class 1,2,3 .........
class 3 is lance jack who is fresh out the box much the same as a lac or sac
class 2 is cpl who still has to go back and do an upgraders course.....much like our old fitters courses.............
and class 1 is cpl who has done upgraders ...........all snco's are class one........

dont know about non tech side of army
only reason i can comment on this is due to the fact that for the last year myself and 6 other techies have been working with the reme at 7aabn at wattisham and during this time we have had several **** fights over how our ranks compare to there's DT_Xtremez_28:

 

[avtur por homme]

Lance jack is a jnco, j/t isnt

This I know
By equal I meant as a senior member of a section,who could be turned to for advice, trade knowledge (having done extensive courses in the subject) and leadership (yes leadership) when the grown ups were not around, ok you would get some people who didnt fit that description but there are many NCO's who are far from perfect.

 

[Enguineer]

I am lucky enough to be an engineer working on a Rock Sqn (not my first choice of employment) and I have neither heard nor seen anything about L/Cpls being approved, although they have been trying to get it for years within the regt.

I think that the L/Cpl gunner was probably what was suggested, acting rank whilst attatched to an Army Unit??

BTW L/Cpl is an NCO rank, from my experience they certainly take their share of duty NCO on combined units, and their status is certainly far superior to LAC/SAC. It also has to be earned, although I am not sure of the criteria.

 

[MrMasher]

Unlike our ranks the army's are easily gained and easily lost.
They have a better system though.
Their uncommisioned ranks only get as far as 22 years and then its either commision or get out. Seems a better way to me, although it would make better sense to do ours to 30 years I reckon.
Unlike ours where we have lots of deadwood higher up staying until age 55 and clogging up the ranks and promotions! (for example I am told the f/sgt redundancies were massively undersubscribed)

 

[Wing boy]

My younger brother is a bootneck and is also a Lance Jack. He was on a course at an army camp a few years ago and had an interesting altercation with the staff there.

Staff. "right lance cpl wing boy you are orderly cpl on such and such a date"

Lcpl Wing boy "oh does that mean I am allowed to drink in the Cpl's mess then?"

Staff "No you aren't a Cpl!"

Lcpl Wing boy "Then I'm not qualified to be orderly Cpl then am I?"

Wierdly though for army staff, my brother got away with it as they couldn't deny his logic!!!!!DT_Xtremez_31:

 

[zipfish]

JT is not equivalent to a L/cpl, it never has been. Also, a FS is not equivalent to a WO2.

All the ranks from each of NATO forces are given a NATO rank, so that staff jobs can be given to the right people. eg. a Danish sailor can be detached to a NATO job with the Italian Air Force and be treated according to his equivalent rank.

British NATO ranks can be found here:
http://www.dasa.mod.uk/natstats/ukds/2002/chap2tab229frame.html

I'm sure you'll agree that the RAF could argue our case and say that NATO ranks 3 and 8 could be filled with JT and FS respectively. But unfortunately, our masters couldn't give a sh*t, as none of them are affected by this.

 

[tonibaloni]

remember it took the MOD going to Parliment to have an Act of Parlimnent to remove the best rank in the RAF. the JT. Any change of rank structure would require a similar Act, one of the reasons why the JT will never come back.
The insidious wearing of pseud-army badges by the rocks is pathetic.

 

[Saracens959]

weather we are equal or not doesn't concern me. The Jelly tot badge has always confused the army and thats the way i like it on SH. Lance jack might be a JNCO but i'd like to see one try to order a JT around or even an old sweat merc badgerDT_Xtremez_25:

Never had any problems personally, Especially when you show them your pay packetDT_Xtremez_30:

 

[Billy Whizz]

JT is not equivalent to a L/cpl, it never has been. Also, a FS is not equivalent to a WO2.

All the ranks from each of NATO forces are given a NATO rank, so that staff jobs can be given to the right people. eg. a Danish sailor can be detached to a NATO job with the Italian Air Force and be treated according to his equivalent rank.

British NATO ranks can be found here:
http://www.dasa.mod.uk/natstats/ukds/2002/chap2tab229frame.html

I'm sure you'll agree that the RAF could argue our case and say that NATO ranks 3 and 8 could be filled with JT and FS respectively. But unfortunately, our masters couldn't give a sh*t, as none of them are affected by this.

On a similar thread, OR 7 contains both Chf Tech & FS? Must be the same rank now then! So a promotion from Chf Tech to FS entails what exactly - signing on to 55 and another 2 ladders on the pay scale! Wow! Can't wait for that to happen! DT_Xtremez_25: