Intermediate Certificate in HR Management (CIPD)

[Woodja]

Just finished my course at Catterick run by Darlington college. Whilst on the course, my local college in south wales started advertising the same course as a one year part-time course but far cheaper.

I'm a bit confused how the CTP can charge so much for a course - the one I attended was £2088, however the next one has gone up to £2204. The part time course offered by Bridgend college is £713 - indeed the part time (Diploma) course offered by Darlington is only £1035.

The same number of hours tutoring is undertaken - the same number of assignments are completed, so how come it is so much more expensive to do the resettlement version?

And stating the obvious - if you do any resettlement at Catterick, for gods sake don't stay there, use Leeming. We had several SNCOs dumped in 4 man rooms despite them repeatedly telling the accom guys that this course required lots of self-study/homework which could not be conducted in 4 man rooms.

 

[busby1971]

You may find that the course you did may have taken into account your service experience whilst the cheaper one does not.

I still don't know why people do the intermediate course as for not much more studying nor money you could have got the postgraduate certificate. Although I doubt they could compact this down to a month and justify its worth.

Employers are looking for the higher qualification at advisor and above level, the intermediate is probably only good for low level advisor or assistant positions at best.

Sent from my LT18i using Tapatalk 2

 

[Woodja]

You may find that the course you did may have taken into account your service experience whilst the cheaper one does not.

I still don't know why people do the intermediate course as for not much more studying nor money you could have got the postgraduate certificate. Although I doubt they could compact this down to a month and justify its worth.

Employers are looking for the higher qualification at advisor and above level, the intermediate is probably only good for low level advisor or assistant positions at best.

Sent from my LT18i using Tapatalk 2

Just did a quick google and the first two companies offering the advanced diploma in HRM (one part time, the other distance) have it as a two year course costing well over 8k - one hell of a difference from 5 weeks and 2k. Also, the advanced diploma is MBA equivalent (level 7) so quite a bit of a difference in the academic expectation of the work submitted.

Most of the job adverts I have seen for HR Advisors/managers in this part of the world just ask that you be CIPD qualified/part qualified with the odd one or two asking specifically for you to be a chartered member (for which you either need the level 7 qual or to do the professional recognition thingy which costs a fortune).

 

[Noidea]

I thought professional recognition route cost about 2 grand?

 

[True Blue Jack]

I thought professional recognition route cost about 2 grand?

£1899 according to the CIPD's own website. 2K is about what I'm expecting to pay for the Advanced Diploma as well. I say "I", obviously that's what ELCs are for!

 

[clungemobile]

I still don't know why people do the intermediate course as for not much more studying nor money you could have got the postgraduate certificate. Although I doubt they could compact this down to a month and justify its worth.

Employers are looking for the higher qualification at advisor and above level, the intermediate is probably only good for low level advisor or assistant positions at best.

According to CIPD:

Intermediate qualifications are ideal for those who:

• seek to develop a career in HR management and development
• are working in the field of HR management and development and need to extend their knowledge and skills
• have responsibility for implementing HR policies and strategies
• need to understand the role of HR in the wider organisational and environmental context.
  
  
  
  My missus did the Intermediate (Level 5) qual last year and is now a HR Manager (31K a year in Peterborough).
  
  How can a level 5 qualification be only good enough for an advisor role? If so what do the Level 3 quals give you - HR Office cleaner?
  
  The fact is Level 5 is a decent level - foundation degree level so with that + 22 yrs HR experience (RAF) she did quite nicely thanks. Level 7 is obviously better and more strategic HR. Perhaps HR Business Partner?
  
  Not much more study nor money? Not sure about that - when my Missus looked it was over 6K and a lot more study! At the end of the day - each to their own - do what you are comfortable with. DT_Xtremez_14:

 

[busby1971]

All I am saying is I don't know why anyone takes the new level 5 qualification because in my view the level 7 course is does not cost that much more and isn't that much harder. If you are just scraping through the level 5 course then you might not make it through the level 7 course but if you are getting good to average scores 60 - 80% at level 5 you should be able to pass the level 7. Like any academic course once you understand the system/methodology assignments can be very formulaic.

Cost wise if you are using ELCs you shouldn't be paying much more than a couple of grand on top for the Post Graduate Diploma. Yes this is more but from a professional development view point it's worth a whole lot more as it covers the knowledge component of the Chartered Membership qualification. (You could even pay for the MA top up and still have change from £500, ELCs covering the rest) If you are doing the level 5 Qualification this is not automatically considered to cover the knowledge component and you can Associate Membership with the CHRP, which'll only cost you £500.

Congrats with the wife finding work the first job is the hardest. Job titles can be very broad, I'm a HR Officer, a colleague at a sister factory doing the same job was until recently titled HR Manager and has just been told she is now called Senior HR Coordinator, and I expect mine to be retitled Junior Business Partner as the arm of the business the factory has been transferred to uses this term as that's the way it wants HR to be seen.

The CIPD is not only the chartered body for HR it is also a money making organisation. A lot of HR professionals take the course to become fully qualified and then let their membership lapse once they've stopped studying. To try to stop this the CIPD are pushing for employers to recognise Chartered Membership status because it provides proof of greater breadth (and keep membership fees coming in). If you only take the Level 5 Course you've got to either take the level 7 course or go through the Professional Accreditation route which I am led to believe is a bit of toughie.

I'm actually pro CIPD the Seminars and meetings are really good and provide networking opportunities, if you're currently in your resettlement phase it's a great way to find out about the latest issues, Agency Workers Regulations, Auto Enrolement or Working Time Directive issues to name a few. I recommend anyone attend as You'll have a few phrases and terms ready for your interviews.

 

[clungemobile]

So what about the Level 3 then (Foundation)?

Some of the missus' old colleagues - Sgts and a FS have done that level - quite strange I suppose but I guess it depends on what you are after and how much you need to earn - not everyone needs to earn 30K plus.

I suppose my last point is really THE point - depends what job you are after plus how good you are at interview...CV gets you through to interview then it depends how well you perform at that!

 

[busby1971]

I did the level 3 as a part of my resettlement, mainly because I couldn't see anything else I wanted to do at the time and I had already started my Post Grad Cert, and it cost me nothing as I was already a member apart from the exam fees.

You're not wrong your CV gets you in the door, you then get a chance to tell your story and translate your experience to the job you are applying for.

I think the L3 course is a better choice over the L5, the L5 just floats there in the middle it's academic rather than vocational so doesn't tell you have to do the job, the L7 course doesn't tell you how to do the job either by the way.

 

[clungemobile]

Blimey mate you really don't like the Level 5 do you? Level 3 better than Level 5 - err yeah right.:SPerhaps you should tell CIPD that! You reckon that employers would value 3 more than 5 (or even 7) then? DT_Xtremez_25:

My missus says she was happy with 'doing the job' ie transactional sort of stuff so Level 3 was too low (she did get CIPD input) but needed some HR management speak and knowledge of processes in the civilian world which she says she got from the Level 5 course. During interview she was comfortable with management questions (ex FS) in both HR and wider context - however she says she couldn't have been that comfy without the CIPD course she did as it gave her some useful info of processes etc - Employment Law etc.

Level 3 is OK if you want to be a PD clerk in civilian world (assistant).....Level 5 for Manager (or similar named roles - officer etc) and Level 7 for strategic roles, perhaps HR business partner. Luck of the draw - Level 7 + RAF experience/mangement etc should IMO attract more than a HR Officer role but that said it depends on the company - my missus noticed a lot of differences in descriptions from company to company so it really is a minefield!

Finally.....she needs to get a bl00dy log-on....I am a Techie! LOL DT_Xtremez_28:

 

[busby1971]

Being from Yorkshire I want to get at least one pounds worth of value from every pound spent, but its not just money if I am spening over 160 hours of my time studying I want to see something tangible from this.

The L3 course gives you a CIPD qualification and Assoc Membership, this`ll get your foot in the door if your experience is appropriate. Most people who get above HR Administrator have this Qual, and in my opinion is much harder than an A Level which it is an equivalent of.

The L5 course was brought in because educational establishments wanted to offer something in the middle, now this could be related to the increase in tuition fees putting off some from doing the Post Grad, I don`t know but it has come in around the same time and the new course appears to cost as much as the Post Grad used to.

The L5 course does nothing, it`s part of the process not a means to an end and in my opinion it is the least effective way of spending your money and time if you are looking at your long term professional development. If you are doing this part time you are looking at the best part of 2 years of your life to get the diploma and in those 2 years you probably could have muddled through the L7 course and be in a much better place.

As some one involved in recruitment in my current job, last job and 8 years in the RAF I have seen a huge increase in people with degrees and have interviewed people who should not have spent the money or time gaining one, a lot of people gain qualifications to mask other failings and I go out of my way to prioritise experience over qualification where I can.

 

[clungemobile]

To be honest, CIPD have cornered the market here - most jobs ask for CIPD qual - they must be raking it in as some of the course costs are very high indeed but you can shop around plus do a qual in a variety of ways - it is upto you - taught, distance etc

My missus did ok and you sound as if you did. She did look at level 7 but the cost and time put her off, she plumped for the 5 and got the job she wanted. She was a FS of over 22 yr experience so perhaps this helped too, I dunno. She spoke with others both ex RAF and civvy before doing the qual and also through Linkedin and decided accordingly.

Incidentally, she did hers in 6 months - tells me she learned a lot about business issues, EL and engagement etc that is alien to most in the RAF and enabled her to talk confidently at interview so to say that the level does nothing is wrong. Acknowledge that it is a process but so what? a lot of people are not as committed to their long term professional development as you seem to be nor do they have to be - they get whatever they can to secure a job at the salary they need. Personal choices.

Your last point is a good one - you shouldn't hide behind a qualification - I doubt you can at interview as you will (or should) be found out. To be honest if an ex RAF clerk of considerable experience adds a CIPD qual then this should be a fantastic grounding for the future in the civvy world.

Good chat but remember it is only your opinion and experiene as it is ours - it is not the whole picture from every employer.......HR Assistant, Officer, Manager, Junior Business Partner, Business Partner, Senior Business Partner...the list goes on! Match your skills and experiences, massage your CV accordingly and go for it!

Cheers cup of corrrfeee

 

[Noidea]

Interesting discussion.

From my discussion with fellow TG17, in particular, we tend to sell ourselves short and not go for what our experience is really worth.

I would always recommend that at ;east FS and above go for level 7. Whilst it does depend on what you wish to do in civvie street of course, I am always suprised at noticing how low we sell ourselves. Just a view.

 

[True Blue Jack]

Interesting discussion.From my discussion with fellow TG17, in particular, we tend to sell ourselves short and not go for what our experience is really worth.I would always recommend that at ;east FS and above go for level 7. Whilst it does depend on what you wish to do in civvie street of course, I am always suprised at noticing how low we sell ourselves. Just a view.

Agreed. "Level 7" sounds daunting at first, but on looking at the CIPD's guidance on what someone studying the Advanced Diploma should be doing/be able to do then I think it comfortably fits FS and above, in fact I reckon sgts who have done tours in Manning and/or as Chf Clk at a smaller unit should find it well within their capabilities.

 

[raflad67]

I am quite happy with the Level 5 - but perhaps I really am as thick as I look....I did have a look at Level 7 and ran for the hills...!Having done nothing like this for a hell of a long time and reviewing the content I deemed it appropriate although I must admit that having already used an ELC and being short of dosh at the time this probably helped sway my decision too. However, I don't really have the time (family commitments) nor inclination to do a Level 7 although I guess it would have been achievable and I may have sold myself short...maybe.....but as I say I am content but time will tell. I do feel more and more confident that at interview the knowledge I am gaining at Level 5 will stand me in good stead coupled with my 26 years experience. However, I do recognise that I probably won't be able to afford to do a Level 7 in the future (if I somehow found the time and the inclination!) so I will be stuck where I am. As has been said though, you do what you feel you are capable of doing and what you think you need for your particular circumstances. Not everyone wants to (or needs to) hold down a 40K PA job...which I guess is where the Level 7 jobs are? (I dunno).Work to live notlive to work kind of thing.Good luck to all whatever you decide from level 3 to level 7 though. I am doing it right now and hope to finish in a couple of months so I will see where it leads. .......................................................................................................................................................................................Do you want fries with that?

 

[busby1971]

I know this is only my opinion but I do base it on my experience and understanding of the system, I may be mistaken on a few points but I think my opinion is valid.

I would recommend anyone planning on leaving the RAF do:

• join Linked in and start lurking and listening (there's a lot of disagreement out there on the HR forums so you do hear quite a bit of good info)
• Do the Level 3 CHRP at Aldershot, this will give you an understanding of current issues and bit of HR Speak, you don't need the depth of the Level 5 course to get the job, trust me, the interview shouldn't have time to go into too much detail.
• Now you are a member of the CIPD start to attend your local groups meetings especially the Employment Law Update ones.
• Sign up to the Daily PM newsletter, read them to get a good jist of what the HR Headlines are.
• Sign up to some Employment Law newsletters, it won't all go in but it'll start to reinforce everything else.
• Write an interview script that gives some answers (with examples think STAR) on - Attendance Management, Disciplinaries and Greivances, Employee Relations, Change, Recruitment, Talent Management and Conflict Resolution - During the interview you twist the answer onto this prepared script remembering to make it relevant to the Question and the Business.
• Translate your CV into civi speak
• Be flexible and enthusiastic

Only if you plan on developing yourself professionally consider the Advanced Diploma.

TBJ - Don't just think rank is the only indicator of what course to do, you've got to get away from military think with its restrictive practices and cumbersome structures, the level you chose should reflect where you want to go and what you believe you can do, not where you've been, what a particular organisation values nor what you have done. (although saying this you shouldn't completely ignore it either if you've done well once there's a chance you can do the same elsewhere)

 

[raflad67]

Some great points there Busby.

Especially STAR...answer everything like this and you shouldn't go too far wrong I guess.

Regards

 

[True Blue Jack]

TBJ - Don't just think rank is the only indicator of what course to do, you've got to get away from military think with its restrictive practices and cumbersome structures, the level you chose should reflect where you want to go and what you believe you can do, not where you've been, what a particular organisation values nor what you have done. (although saying this you shouldn't completely ignore it either if you've done well once there's a chance you can do the same elsewhere)

Absolutely, I was only backing up Noidea's statement that we in the military often sell ourselves short and that anyone FS and above in TG17 should be able to master the advanced diploma. CIPD recommend the advanced diploma as suitable for those who:

• have responsibility for Human Resource (HR) decision making within an organisation at either operational, tactical or more strategic level
• are HR professionals in a team or HR functional management role who are seeking to enhance and develop their career
• have responsibilities for the HR function and activities within an organisation without a specialist function
• are independent or employed HR consultants who support organisations in meeting their goals.

Now I haven't begun my study just yet so I have yet to gain first hand knowledge of the course but I selected it because I fit at least 2 of those criteria - as do many others across the rank spectrum. I guess what I'm trying to say is that people shouldn't be put off by the fact it is a Level 7 qualification if that's what they want to do even if the highest they've studied at before is Level 4 or 5.

 

[busby1971]

Here's an email I received yesterday by the way:

Hello,

I hope you don’t mind me getting in touch this way.

I am currently recruiting for an exciting HR Manager role for a food manufacturing business based in Melton Mowbray.

The salary they are offering is extremely competitive c. £28,000

This role is a great progression opportunity for an experienced HR Advisor looking for their next move, reporting into Group HR Manager based in Ireland, you will also have responsibility for Health and Safety. The business would be open to funding CIPD/NEBOSH qualification.

Please could you let me know if you are interested in discussing this opportunity further and we can arrange a call?

If this isn’t the right time for you to explore another career opportunity, perhaps you could refer someone within your network that might be.

It would be great to connect for the future anyway.

I look forward to hearing from you.

Kind Regards,

Bec​

ky

It's not for me as it looks below my current position, despite having the Manager tag and I'm not touching H&S within food manufacturing for anything especially not £28k. If you want to gain a lot of operational civi Generalist HR experience in a short period of time I can recommend the FMCG sector.