Force Protection Specialists? Give us the kit to do the job!

[Smash]

Gents,

I am a serving Rock Ape, just wanted to throw a topic out there and see what people think.

My gripe concerns the Regt's role as FP 'specialists' and I have to ask, what makes us specialsts? Bear with me... The RAF Regt Field Sqns are good at patrolling a GDA up to Sqn level. We're good at interacting with air ops and trying to manage Op TESSERAL. We can patrol a patch of ground as good as the next unit. We're good soldiers! I suppose the focus of my gripe has to be at Wing Level, i.e the C2 of the Force Protection 'system' the RAF put in place to protect their airfields.

I don't have a gripe about what the Wing does in principle, I just feel that it is being undersold as it dosn't really have the kit to do the job. I havn't been to the COB recently (i was there in 05) but I see the myriad of ISTAR kit available to forces all overthe world e.g RAID (camera on balloon), J-LENS (camera on mast) DESERT HAWK (camera on UAV) (sorry about the egg sucking) to name a few and I think, why doesn't the Wing have this kit along with the specialist troops to employ it? I know its all about money and manpower blah blah blah but with this sort of capability, which the Army, specifically the Royal Artillary, already have, a RAF Regt FP Wing HQ could be transformed from a watchkeeping organisation into a proper, bonefied 'specialist' FP command and control hub, brimming with ISTAR feeds and directing the already stirling work of the Field Sqn under it's command

In short, without the right sort of FP equipment, we will forever be reliant on the Army for ISTAR equipment and we won't be able to do the job properly. Why don't the powers that be fight for some of this kit off the army? For the price of the kit, the training and the manpower, it would certainly enhance the RAF Regt's capablity and may allow us to refer to ourselves as FP 'specialists'.

I hope nobody thinks i'm slagging the Regt, I just want to see us do our job properly. What do y'all think?

 

[monobrow]

In short, without the right sort of FP equipment, we will forever be reliant on the Army for ISTAR equipment and we won't be able to do the job properly.

So is this a current gripe or one from 2005. ISTAR is one of the biggest developers over the last few years, especially airborne platforms.

 

[Nec Aspera Terrent]

Gents,

I am a serving Rock Ape, just wanted to throw a topic out there and see what people think.

My gripe concerns the Regt's role as FP 'specialists' and I have to ask, what makes us specialsts? Bear with me... The RAF Regt Field Sqns are good at patrolling a GDA up to Sqn level. We're good at interacting with air ops and trying to manage Op TESSERAL. We can patrol a patch of ground as good as the next unit. We're good soldiers! I suppose the focus of my gripe has to be at Wing Level, i.e the C2 of the Force Protection 'system' the RAF put in place to protect their airfields.

I don't have a gripe about what the Wing does in principle, I just feel that it is being undersold as it dosn't really have the kit to do the job. I havn't been to the COB recently (i was there in 05) but I see the myriad of ISTAR kit available to forces all overthe world e.g RAID (camera on balloon), J-LENS (camera on mast) DESERT HAWK (camera on UAV) (sorry about the egg sucking) to name a few and I think, why doesn't the Wing have this kit along with the specialist troops to employ it? I know its all about money and manpower blah blah blah but with this sort of capability, which the Army, specifically the Royal Artillary, already have, a RAF Regt FP Wing HQ could be transformed from a watchkeeping organisation into a proper, bonefied 'specialist' FP command and control hub, brimming with ISTAR feeds and directing the already stirling work of the Field Sqn under it's command

In short, without the right sort of FP equipment, we will forever be reliant on the Army for ISTAR equipment and we won't be able to do the job properly. Why don't the powers that be fight for some of this kit off the army? For the price of the kit, the training and the manpower, it would certainly enhance the RAF Regt's capablity and may allow us to refer to ourselves as FP 'specialists'.

I hope nobody thinks i'm slagging the Regt, I just want to see us do our job properly. What do y'all think?

So does UK PLC really need to duplicate the expense and buy another set of identical kit for the RAF to use if the Army are already using it?

 

[Smash]

Agreed! I think its a vital enabler, especially when providing FP for a big static target like an airfield. With only a Sqn sized manouvre asset for the interdiction of attacks onto the airfield, ISTAR platforms (and plenty of them) is essential to direct the Wing's efforts and bring force to bear where its needed, otherwise, the Sqn is just 'stabbing' into the dark and is vulnerable to the enemy's dicking screen. The ISTAR assets are there and currently owned by the RA. I'm asking why we don't own any as it would certainly enhance our capability.

 

[Smash]

No, of course not. I'd just like to see some of this kit allocated to the RAF so it can look after its own airfields. Of course we can argue the practicalities of kit transfer and training burdens but I just believe that until we possess this capability 'in-house' we will forever be a few feet short of calling ourselves 'FP specialists'.

 

[snowball1]

You will be wanting rapier back next!

 

[Nec Aspera Terrent]

You will be wanting rapier back next!

As HBAD is now in RA hands and this thread suggests that FP assets are in RA hands, how long will it be before the "RAF Regiment" drops the "F"...?

 

[Smash]

Well! I think thats a can of worms beyond the scope of my thread! I don't think that will happen as the RAF would lose a lot more than it gained in terms of ethos and identity, plus history tels us that Army airfield defence dosen't work!

When we look at modern threats to airfields we have to argue that in its current state as a standalone force, the Regt lacks the kit to counter those threats on its own, although we provide a keen deterrant alongside other units.

The main threat to airfields is indirect fire - do we have the kit to detect and counter that threat? no (the RA do though). Yes we have the 81mm mortar but that is outranged by most rocket systems available to our current enemies and without ISTAR we lack the ability to PID beyond visual range and so under the rules of engagement, 9 times out of 10, we can't do any more than stick some illum up! The army already has the kit to do the FP job properly, if we are FP 'specialists' then why don't we?

I know that the UK's modern military is about joinetry and what not and so why is it so wrong that we incorporate RA personnel and their gucci ISTAR kit into a Wing HQ? I just see my beloved corps and have ambitions for it beyond it's current form. I want an RAF Force Protection Wing to be a world leader in Force Protection of large fixed sites. To have the personnel, kit and capability to turn up to an austere airfield, deploy and defend it effectivly, not be a rebadged TAC STO HQ worried about hesco and fencing and trying to direct a Field Sqn when it is more in the dark than they are!

 

[MAINJAFAD]

Well! I think thats a can of worms beyond the scope of my thread! I don't think that will happen as the RAF would lose a lot more than it gained in terms of ethos and identity, plus history tels us that Army airfield defence dosen't work!

When we look at modern threats to airfields we have to argue that in its current state as a standalone force, the Regt lacks the kit to counter those threats on its own, although we provide a keen deterrant alongside other units.

The main threat to airfields is indirect fire - do we have the kit to detect and counter that threat? no (the RA do though). Yes we have the 81mm mortar but that is outranged by most rocket systems available to our current enemies and without ISTAR we lack the ability to PID beyond visual range and so under the rules of engagement, 9 times out of 10, we can't do any more than stick some illum up! The army already has the kit to do the FP job properly, if we are FP 'specialists' then why don't we?

I know that the UK's modern military is about joinetry and what not and so why is it so wrong that we incorporate RA personnel and their gucci ISTAR kit into a Wing HQ? I just see my beloved corps and have ambitions for it beyond it's current form. I want an RAF Force Protection Wing to be a world leader in Force Protection of large fixed sites. To have the personnel, kit and capability to turn up to an austere airfield, deploy and defend it effectivly, not be a rebadged TAC STO HQ worried about hesco and fencing and trying to direct a Field Sqn when it is more in the dark than they are!

And the Regt never have had the equipment to counter battery IDF fire, don't think the rocks have ever had 105's or anything like the AS-90. Its not just the ISTAR and Weapon assets the RA have, but the data handling systems to get that targeting infomation to the weapons, a game that the RA have been in for a good number of years, and are very good at. RAF Regt are getting into the battlefield data game, but have only just started.

 

[hammy4190]

DT_Xtremez_40:
The AIR FORCE HOLDS THE PURSE STRINGS!!

Biggles and co are never going spend money on us having our own istar. The Corps of The RAF Regiment will never go as they fear the Army even more, my suggestion get to your pension and just laugh!!!

 

[Wilberforce]

Well! I think thats a can of worms beyond the scope of my thread! I don't think that will happen as the RAF would lose a lot more than it gained in terms of ethos and identity, plus history tels us that Army airfield defence dosen't work!

When we look at modern threats to airfields we have to argue that in its current state as a standalone force, the Regt lacks the kit to counter those threats on its own, although we provide a keen deterrant alongside other units.

The main threat to airfields is indirect fire - do we have the kit to detect and counter that threat? no (the RA do though). Yes we have the 81mm mortar but that is outranged by most rocket systems available to our current enemies and without ISTAR we lack the ability to PID beyond visual range and so under the rules of engagement, 9 times out of 10, we can't do any more than stick some illum up! The army already has the kit to do the FP job properly, if we are FP 'specialists' then why don't we?

I know that the UK's modern military is about joinetry and what not and so why is it so wrong that we incorporate RA personnel and their gucci ISTAR kit into a Wing HQ? I just see my beloved corps and have ambitions for it beyond it's current form. I want an RAF Force Protection Wing to be a world leader in Force Protection of large fixed sites. To have the personnel, kit and capability to turn up to an austere airfield, deploy and defend it effectivly, not be a rebadged TAC STO HQ worried about hesco and fencing and trying to direct a Field Sqn when it is more in the dark than they are!

My friend. My experience to date consitantly reminds me that Jointery is actually spelt A.R.M.Y. Sorry to be the bearer of bad news.

 

[Smash]

Yeah I know, though Land is the supported arm, dosn't explain their pig ignorance however.