Flight Operations Assistant and AMM (Av)

[Dmont]

Hello guys, I've posted here recently about some other roles and after being to the AFCO i've whittled it down to these two trades. Without the officer sugar coating the two roles like he did with the ASOP (well a little bit) what are these trades like in terms of posting, promotion and job satisfaction ?

Leading up to signing on the dotted line, you'll probably hear more of me.DT_Xtremez_31:

 

[Stevienics]

You're going to hear 2 stories here; both from personages who are SMEs in the one trade without a direct knowledge of the other.

AMM Av for me would be the way ahead, given that it has the distinction of being a technical trade (always a winner) combined with offering you transferable skills in the era of a new 6th Gen platform. Get in at the outset of that and you could be a star ascending with some application.

FOA? Sounds like you're always doing someone else's work for them.

 

[Tidge]

I can't speak for AMM but for the FOA's you spend you time in Ops or in the tower. From the Ops side your role is to ensure that when the pilots strap in to do their stuff that everything else has been done for them. This will vary between jets but the role is essentially the same. The role gets you close to flying without flying. The guys go into work for airports and airlines. It's one of those roles where you aren't quite sure what you are coming in to. As the other chap states though you do spend a lot of time doing other people's work.

A mate of mine has just joined as an AMM because he likes getting his hands dirty and doing practical stuff. As for he will do say to day I'm not sure.

Good luck in whatever you decide to do

 

[rocket scientist]

I'm a techie and I should imagine you'll end up wiping aircrew arses in either trade. You're probably more likely to get a "back seat trip" as FOA though (and that's not a euphemism). On a serious note though, I have worked alongside Opsies in both Station & Squadron Ops and from what I've seen at SAC level you would get more responsibility and variety as a techie.

 

[Dmont]

I can't speak for AMM but for the FOA's you spend you time in Ops or in the tower. From the Ops side your role is to ensure that when the pilots strap in to do their stuff that everything else has been done for them. This will vary between jets but the role is essentially the same. The role gets you close to flying without flying. The guys go into work for airports and airlines. It's one of those roles where you aren't quite sure what you are coming in to. As the other chap states though you do spend a lot of time doing other people's work.

A mate of mine has just joined as an AMM because he likes getting his hands dirty and doing practical stuff. As for he will do say to day I'm not sure.

Good luck in whatever you decide to do

I'm a techie and I should imagine you'll end up wiping aircrew arses in either trade. You're probably more likely to get a "back seat trip" as FOA though (and that's not a euphemism). On a serious note though, I have worked alongside Opsies in both Station & Squadron Ops and from what I've seen at SAC level you would get more responsibility and variety as a techie.

thanks guys, some more questions to you both if you don't mind?

1. I literally have no experience in engineering, but i'm interested in it will it still be a viable option.
2.I know everyone starts on the same pay level, but who can move up the pay scales quicker (Just curious not a huge eliminating factor)
3. would you recommend your jobs, if so why ?
4. "back seat trip" i assuming you mean travelling ?

Once again thanks

 

[FOMz]

thanks guys, some more questions to you both if you don't mind?

1. I literally have no experience in engineering, but i'm interested in it will it still be a viable option.

if you have the technical aptitude, they will teach you

2.I know everyone starts on the same pay level, but who can move up the pay scales quicker (Just curious not a huge eliminating factor)

FOA's are on the lower tier, techies (not including bomb heads ) are on the higher tier

3. would you recommend your jobs, if so why ?

As the name suggests, I'm an ex-FOM. I had a very varied career working in Sqns, Ops, WOCs, Towers and a few other things. Spannering never interested me, I preferred the variation of being an Ops Monkey

4. "back seat trip" i assuming you mean travelling ?

no, he means flying. I've had trips in Hawks, various prop trainers and loads of AT fleet stuff. If you work in Ops, you are better placed to blag spare seats when they come up

Once again thanks

Hope that helps...


Just don't become a scope or a scuffer... because no-one will talk to you.

 

[Dmont]

Hope that helps...


Just don't become a scope or a scuffer... because no-one will talk to you.

Cheers FOMz, definitely gave me more to think about. And yeah the AFCO tried to push me into the Scopie trade but i said it didn't appeal to me, i've scopies getting some hateful banter over their trade. And as for the Police well...i'd rather not say DT_Xtremez_31:

 

[norfolkred1]

Cheers FOMz, definitely gave me more to think about. And yeah the AFCO tried to push me into the Scopie trade but i said it didn't appeal to me, i've scopies getting some hateful banter over their trade. And as for the Police well...i'd rather not say DT_Xtremez_31:

As a retired Scopie of many a year I would not sell he current Trade to anyone however, I met many a good folk in the Trade that I could turn to in any need and call a friend. the RAF is a family regardless of Trade and how we were bull shoited by the AFCO/ CIO at the time. I enjoyed my 28 years and could never look back and bleat about it. Met some real friends over the time I spent in from the all Trades I worked with so enjoy your career of choice.

 

[Tidge]

thanks guys, some more questions to you both if you don't mind?

1. I literally have no experience in engineering, but i'm interested in it will it still be a viable option.
2.I know everyone starts on the same pay level, but who can move up the pay scales quicker (Just curious not a huge eliminating factor)
3. would you recommend your jobs, if so why ?
4. "back seat trip" i assuming you mean travelling ?

Once again thanks

I can't really comment on 1 but for 2 as FOMz says the Opsies are on the lower tier (all the pay grades can be found via a well known search engine.

I wasn't TG9 directly so I couldn't comment directly but I was (will be again soon) the commissioned side of the Ops branch. But I would recommend Ops I had some good times and really had to think about decisions especially when you are organising quick time flights for Compassionate reasons, and later SAR.

I managed to get myself on a few trips from flying around Europe on a royal jet to flying around the mountains in the back of a Sea Kings doing rescues, and being dunked in the Irish Sea (in winter)

I think the problem you face is that you have had these two trades presented to you and you don't have any experience of the type of work they do (I apologise if I am wrong) it might be worth getting hold of the AFCO and see if you could arrange a trip to a base so you can see in person what they do. You can then make your mind up from there. It wouldn't be great if you signed on the dotted line and then hated the job you were doing.

 

[Spearmint]

Current serving Techie here, how the fresh blood has been brought through has changed a lot during my time and it seems it's going to change again if the recent brief we received from the TG1 Sponsor bears relation to actual future events....but it boils down to.....

Basically, once you've graduated Halton and Cosford you'll be an AMM (Aircraft Maintenance Mech) posted to a 1st line Sqn. What does this entail?

You will be responsible (Post local training) for the safe receipt / dispatch (Think a set of events using hand signals etc to tell the Pilot that you are the boss) servicing (Before, After and Inbetween Flights) and basic replenishment (Oils, Fuel, Lubes, Tyres, Oxygen, Nitrogen, Coolant etc) plus a load of other jobs (Yes, some are sh1t!) which will include fault finding.

At some point whether you go back to Cosford or not, you'll consolidate your technical training and start your advancement through the ranks, attain responsibility, gain a love for alcohol, a fierce intolerance of d1ckheads (Unless you are that d1ckhead!) and a solid set of skills to see you through life.

 

[Dmont]

I can't really comment on 1 but for 2 as FOMz says the Opsies are on the lower tier (all the pay grades can be found via a well known search engine.

I wasn't TG9 directly so I couldn't comment directly but I was (will be again soon) the commissioned side of the Ops branch. But I would recommend Ops I had some good times and really had to think about decisions especially when you are organising quick time flights for Compassionate reasons, and later SAR.

I managed to get myself on a few trips from flying around Europe on a royal jet to flying around the mountains in the back of a Sea Kings doing rescues, and being dunked in the Irish Sea (in winter)

I think the problem you face is that you have had these two trades presented to you and you don't have any experience of the type of work they do (I apologise if I am wrong) it might be worth getting hold of the AFCO and see if you could arrange a trip to a base so you can see in person what they do. You can then make your mind up from there. It wouldn't be great if you signed on the dotted line and then hated the job you were doing.

Current serving Techie here, how the fresh blood has been brought through has changed a lot during my time and it seems it's going to change again if the recent brief we received from the TG1 Sponsor bears relation to actual future events....but it boils down to.....

Basically, once you've graduated Halton and Cosford you'll be an AMM (Aircraft Maintenance Mech) posted to a 1st line Sqn. What does this entail?

You will be responsible (Post local training) for the safe receipt / dispatch (Think a set of events using hand signals etc to tell the Pilot that you are the boss) servicing (Before, After and Inbetween Flights) and basic replenishment (Oils, Fuel, Lubes, Tyres, Oxygen, Nitrogen, Coolant etc) plus a load of other jobs (Yes, some are sh1t!) which will include fault finding.

At some point whether you go back to Cosford or not, you'll consolidate your technical training and start your advancement through the ranks, attain responsibility, gain a love for alcohol, a fierce intolerance of d1ckheads (Unless you are that d1ckhead!) and a solid set of skills to see you through life.

thank you for the advice, i'm kind of leaning towards the flight ops side because the lady at the AFCO said i could progress to ATC later on in my career which does appeal to me, and also the AMM branch is closed atm but i've got till next may to solidify my decision .

 

[busby1971]

Unless things have changed you can apply to become ATC from any ground trade, not just Flight Ops, always best to pick a job you want to do rather than one just to get in.

Good luck

Sent from my SM-T715 using Tapatalk

 

[FOMz]

You can join as an FOA and apply for DE(Sgt)ATC or go down the commissioned route to become an ATC at a later date, but as Busby rightly says... you can either from any trade. I'm not sure if they are still doing FOA(ATC) which means you join as an FOA and after about 5 years if you tick all the right boxes, you can progress onto JATTC though... ask about that one, or one of the Recruiters on here can put you straight.

But don't get all dazzled by the ATC side of things, A career in Flight Ops can lead you down many many different roads, not just working in a tower, and if you do it right, when you leave can lead you into some very varied areas of commercial aviation.

 

[Dmont]

You can join as an FOA and apply for DE(Sgt)ATC or go down the commissioned route to become an ATC at a later date, but as Busby rightly says... you can either from any trade. I'm not sure if they are still doing FOA(ATC) which means you join as an FOA and after about 5 years if you tick all the right boxes, you can progress onto JATTC though... ask about that one, or one of the Recruiters on here can put you straight.

But don't get all dazzled by the ATC side of things, A career in Flight Ops can lead you down many many different roads, not just working in a tower, and if you do it right, when you leave can lead you into some very varied areas of commercial aviation.

i've heard that it's a very varied role, i've seen on forums that flight ops travel a lot with squadrons is this correct ?

 

[FOMz]

i've heard that it's a very varied role, i've seen on forums that flight ops travel a lot with squadrons is this correct ?

It depends If you are on a squadron and which squadron you are on and where you might go. Squadrons might also take people from other Ops jobs as well to augment their guys, so don't just think that being on a squadron is the be all and end all though

Many moons ago, they identified something like 50+ different jobs within the trade an FOA can be employed in. 5 of which are in a tower....

No idea where you are... but why not speak to the AFCO and see if a station visit could be arranged so you can see first hand what AMM's and FOA's do?

 

[J Y Kelly]

. I'm not sure if they are still doing FOA(ATC) which means you join as an FOA and after about 5 years if you tick all the right boxes, you can progress onto JATTC though... ask about that one, or one of the Recruiters on here can put you straight.

The FOA(ATC) route has been closed for several years.

 

[Dmont]

It depends If you are on a squadron and which squadron you are on and where you might go. Squadrons might also take people from other Ops jobs as well to augment their guys, so don't just think that being on a squadron is the be all and end all though

Many moons ago, they identified something like 50+ different jobs within the trade an FOA can be employed in. 5 of which are in a tower....

No idea where you are... but why not speak to the AFCO and see if a station visit could be arranged so you can see first hand what AMM's and FOA's do?

I'm in watford but i'll definitely see if i can arrange a visit

 

[FOMz]

I'm in watford but i'll definitely see if i can arrange a visit

If you want to see both AMM's and FOAs job roles on the same visit, then maybe Benson, Brize or Odiham might suit.

 

[Dmont]

It depends If you are on a squadron and which squadron you are on and where you might go. Squadrons might also take people from other Ops jobs as well to augment their guys, so don't just think that being on a squadron is the be all and end all though

Many moons ago, they identified something like 50+ different jobs within the trade an FOA can be employed in. 5 of which are in a tower....

No idea where you are... but why not speak to the AFCO and see if a station visit could be arranged so you can see first hand what AMM's and FOA's do?

Also Fomz is there any way to see what sort of jobs are within the Flight ops branch, i only know a few and i'm interested to see what the other 50 are or at least what the 5 are in the tower ?

 

[rest have risen above me]

Also Fomz is there any way to see what sort of jobs are within the Flight ops branch, i only know a few and i'm interested to see what the other 50 are or at least what the 5 are in the tower ?

As this is an RAF site and you'll need to get used to this.
SATCO likes Coffee White One
Duty Pilot likes Tea .. Earl Grey
Senior PFOM likes a Skinny Latte (stuck up bugger)
Approach takes it "Julie Andrews"
Oh and OC ops likes a Fruit infused English breakfast tea.

That's the 5 covered I believe. 

Serious answer. From what I hear AMM is only closed until they sort out the training pipelines again. Plus they may rename it. Again.
Forgot to say. Benson and Brize only show the lorries, transit vans, Landover and buses in our aircraft fleet, don't forget there's a whole world of prima Donna fast jet boys and some really clever (if somewhat wierd) sneaky and devious platforms. That's a big thing to consider as every type is different.