England drop Prior for NZ series

[fergo]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/cricket/england/7169517.stm

IMHO Prior dropped too many catches, through very poor footwork, and despite his runs couldnt do his main job well enough.

James Foster must be a bit gutted, he got his call up juts too early for him. Think he could have been the number one if they had held back a bit.

 

[tats]

Ok this might be a daft question but when and why did they stop using Jones?

 

[fergo]

When Moores came in.
He wasnt scoring any runs and couldnt catch a cold.

 

[tommo9999]

Prior has paid the price for a few recent howlers. Forget the batting and the extras, if you keep wicket, you've got to catch the ball. Simple as.

 

[fergo]

Prior has paid the price for a few recent howlers. Forget the batting and the extras, if you keep wicket, you've got to catch the ball. Simple as.

Yeah it is pretty elementary decision really.

Just seems to be like England’s left side at Football, a constant problem.
Personally i think Foster is the solution.

 

[tommo9999]

Moores was a keeper I think, so he must be really disappointed with Prior if he's dropping him. Foster could be the answer.

 

[fergo]

Moores was a keeper I think, so he must be really disappointed with Prior if he's dropping him. Foster could be the answer.

He was a protege of Moores at County level as well.

 

[TrickyTree]

Meanwhile the best wicketkeeper in England, Nottinghamshire captain Chris Read, continues to be ignored.......DT_Xtremez_32:

Best of luck to Tim Ambrose and Phil Mustard though, for England's sake as much as theirs.

Oh, and Tats and Fergo, Geraint Jones wasn't dropped when Moores came in, he was dropped during the home series against Pakistan last year, replaced by Chis Read, who Duncan Fletcher proceeded to treat abysmally (again). Jones was dropped because a) he can't catch and b) he wasn't scoring runs. Hasn't scored any to speak of for Kent since, either.

 

[theladf]

Ok this might be a daft question but when and why did they stop using Jones?

The irony with Jones was that although he couldn't buy runs with stolen money, at the very time they dropped him, his keeping was easily the best it had been. For my money the keeper is a very specialist position and should go to the best glove-man available. Since Jack Russell (who scored 2 test tons) the fear of the top order collapse has dictated that the wicketkeeper must bat, which I think is rubbish. As a Kent man I would go for Read, I haven't seen a lot of Ambrose or Mustard, but in future Foster may well get another spin on the merry-go-round.

 

[tats]

The irony with Jones was that although he couldn't buy runs with stolen money, at the very time they dropped him, his keeping was easily the best it had been. For my money the keeper is a very specialist position and should go to the best glove-man available. Since Jack Russell (who scored 2 test tons) the fear of the top order collapse has dictated that the wicketkeeper must bat, which I think is rubbish. As a Kent man I would go for Read, I haven't seen a lot of Ambrose or Mustard, but in future Foster may well get another spin on the merry-go-round.

I forgot about Read, I haven't paid a huge amount of attention to cricket since moving out, but when I go home its the only thing on tv - no matter who's playing. Why did Read get cut? We seem to have been through a number of wicket keepers since Russell, obviously big shoes to fill.

 

[TrickyTree]

... Why did Read get cut?...

After Chris Read came in for Geraint Jones he did exactly as was asked of him, scoring runs (5 innings in 3 Tests at an average of 38.75, highest score 55) and keeping tidily, just as he had done for Notts. It seemed he'd done enough to keep the job for the Ashes.

Then came the ICC Champions Trophy in India. He didn't have such a great tournament, but then again we are talking about an England TEAM who came bottom of their group...!

Three weeks before a single ball was bowled in the 2006/07 Ashes Series, he was told that he would not be playing. Of course, some back-pedalling was involved once the series was lost and he regained his place, only to lose it again to Paul Nixon for the Commonwealth Bank ODI series. He hasn't played for England since, - but then, neither has Geraint Jones.

Chris Read has taken over the Nottinghamshire captaincy from Stephen Fleming, played in the ICL in India before Christmas and as far as I can see has (despite his stated ambitions) given up hope of ever playing for England again. Looking at the disgusting way he has been treated I can't say I blame him.

theladf - I can't agree with you, I'm afraid, I thought that Geraint Jones's keeping was as much a factor in his usurpation by Chris Read as his batting. Quite simply, in my view he can't catch! All through the series against Sri Lanka I was not convinced and especially at Trent Bridge, where I attended all four days. I was sitting in the members' pavilion seating after Murali got him out for 6 in the second innings and he looked broken to me as he trudged back in. He was unmercilessley barracked by the old West Wing and Parr Stand as he came up the Pavlilion steps (well this is Nottingham, and we do want our boy to play!) but he seemed to take it very personally. Other players were similarly barracked and managed to in public at least retain a professional veneer.

Murali's magical spell on day 4 saw him take 8 for 26 off 17.3 overs, finishing with 8 for 70 off 30 overs, 10 of which were maidens. It was superb exponency of the leg-spinner's art, and it was a privilege to be there. The barracking of Jones was unfair - did these people not realise that what they were watching was something very, very special?

 

[fergo]

Meanwhile the best wicketkeeper in England, Nottinghamshire captain Chris Read, continues to be ignored.......DT_Xtremez_32:

Best of luck to Tim Ambrose and Phil Mustard though, for England's sake as much as theirs.

Oh, and Tats and Fergo, Geraint Jones wasn't dropped when Moores came in, he was dropped during the home series against Pakistan last year, replaced by Chis Read, who Duncan Fletcher proceeded to treat abysmally (again). Jones was dropped because a) he can't catch and b) he wasn't scoring runs. Hasn't scored any to speak of for Kent since, either.

I was pretty sure it was Moores, i just didnt research it. I forgot Read had played a few games after the Ashes.
I did say his glove work was crap, he dropped a few in the Ashes series and hadnt scored any runs.

 

[fergo]

theladf - I can't agree with you, I'm afraid, I thought that Geraint Jones's keeping was as much a factor in his usurpation by Chris Read as his batting.

Hvae to say i agree. He is a nother keeper with poor footwork, not quite as bad as Prior's IMHO

 

[theladf]

Tricky tree & Fergo, I think the point has been missed here regarding Geraint Jones. In my view his keeping alone, even though it improved at test level, was not of sufficiently high standard to justify his place on its own, he needed to continue to make runs. When he came on to the test scene he shared some productive partnerships (notably with Fred) and the selectors seemed happy to let this continue, they would overlook missed stumpings/dropped catches because at the time he could get a score and usually quite quickly. I for one would prefer a keeper for keeping alone if he can wield the willow to good effect as well so much the better but give me someone who will take 99% of his chances (or more) anything less such as Jones will cost matches, thats why I would pick Read.

 

[fergo]

Tricky tree & Fergo, I think the point has been missed here regarding Geraint Jones. In my view his keeping alone, even though it improved at test level, was not of sufficiently high standard to justify his place on its own, he needed to continue to make runs. When he came on to the test scene he shared some productive partnerships (notably with Fred) and the selectors seemed happy to let this continue, they would overlook missed stumpings/dropped catches because at the time he could get a score and usually quite quickly. I for one would prefer a keeper for keeping alone if he can wield the willow to good effect as well so much the better but give me someone who will take 99% of his chances (or more) anything less such as Jones will cost matches, thats why I would pick Read.

I think i was first to say his keeping was pants.
In test cricket the wicketkeeper/batsmen is an important position. i think England will compromise over the glove work to an extent but jones had let them down a few times and the runs had totally dried up.

 

[tommo9999]

You're right Fergo, it is an important position. The keeper should, first and foremost, be the best keeper in the country. Best at the basics. You can then work on their batting and stuff, but they must be a master of the full range of keeping skills.

 

[TrickyTree]

You're right Fergo, it is an important position. The keeper should, first and foremost, be the best keeper in the country. Best at the basics. You can then work on their batting and stuff, but they must be a master of the full range of keeping skills.

Amen DT_Xtremez_28:

 

[theladf]

The problem is with wicketkeepers these days is that they seem to be compared to Adam Gilchrist of Australia. He is a total one off and because of the sheer weight of runs the man has scored, (his test average is superb, just under 50) and the number of times he has turned games and proven to be a matchwinner, the Australians are prepared to overlook mishaps with the gloves. When I was in Australia for the Ashes last winter several Aussies backed this opinion up and said that he's not the best keeper in Australia, or for that matter even in his state, but they will stick with him for his overall contribution to the game. England have better keepers Read, Foster (not Jones), than Gilchrist & I have heard good reports on the radio regarding Tim Ambrose & Phil Mustard. But to expect to go and unearth someone who can come anywhere near Gillie with the bat is ridiculous. OK India have Mohendra Singh Dhoni, an explosive bat, but nearer to Jones than Read in the keeping ability stakes.

I have checked out Gillies stats on Cricket Australia, he holds the test batting record for 6's which is 97, and his keeping is such that he needs 15 dismissals to overtake Ian Healy's record, having played 29 fewer tests!

http://www.cricket.com.au/default.aspx?s=playersmendetails&profileid=13

On the good side he won't be around for the next Ashes, or will he?

 

[Humble Scribe]

Problem is, we don't have an outstanding candidate for the job. Some can bat a little, some are competent behind the sticks, but nobody has grasped the mantle since Stewart retired. In the one day game, it is imperative that the keeper can contribute runs but less important in a Test (although very handy!). Having said that, with England's frail lower order, our keeper should be scoring a fair few runs.

Personally, with the ashes coming up next year, I think they should pick someone and stick with him for a fair few years whilst working on his stump work and batting. For the record, I'd go for Ambrose simply because most of the other candidates have been tried and have failed and, he's Australian born!

 

[fergo]

England keeper contest wide open

England keeper contest wide open

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/cricket/england/7219593.stm

I think England really have to get this sorted at the very latest by the middle of the Summer, preferably at the end of the Winter so it can all be bedded down before before the 2009 Ashes series.