DE Controllers - again.........

[vim_fuego]

Sorry to be the pedant but since we are getting things right it's not Airmen Aircrew anymore, it's Non-commissioned Aircrew (NCA) now...

Carry on....

 

[The Dog's]

How many more times. The new system is Direct Entrant SNCO, in effect they are for all intents and purposes NCA ( Happy Vim?). They do OASC as if they were going NCA, they do AAITC as if they were going NCA. They graduate from Cranwell as SNCO, they then complete JATCC.

It is completely differne to the Scopie method and the ATC fast track system has been stopped, however, those already in the system have legacy rights.

ilovethenightlife - Please pay attention to what I have written, they are the facts as it stands

Am I being thick here, but how/why are ATC personnel being grouped with aircrew? The only commonality I can see between the two is comms?

 

[NotAnIDOYet]

The powers that be need SNCO controllers, they have determined that to give them more of what it is like to be a SNCO over the present system of no idea that they will put them through AAITC. Call it SNCO training prior to JATCC. That way once the course is completed they will alsready have done SNCO training.

How is promotion structured for the DEs? Will there be a minimum time to FS or are they in competition with existing SNCO ATC?

 

[SirSaltyHelmet]

They will go into competition with the exisiting contrllers, if they don't then there would be two different structures and defeating the object.

 

[lafyar kokov]

How will it work if, after graduation, they decide they don'y like controlling will they be booted out or moved into the FOM side to take jobs away from more than capable people waiting for promotion?
This has happened with the FOA(ATC) system and as per usual the Ops side of the house is left with people completely unsuitable for an SACs Ops job let alone a Sgt post.
The sooner the two sides of TG9 are separated the better, at any unit over 50% of TG9 jobs are located in Operations environments but primacy is always given to ATC.

 

[Dan Dare]

Not that old argument again........

Not that old argument again........

That's going to be the way it is until someone grows some and splits the trades. The trade need controllers, the balance has to be kept between SNCOs and officers and FOAs have to do the assistant type stuff. No system is perfect. It has been discussed at length by people far more qualified than most here and no suitable answer has been found yet. It's crap that we have to go along with it but it's the system in place at the moment.

Lafyar, if someone has done all those months of training and passed all the intensive courses, having had to do aptitude tests up the ying-yang to get there, how are they unsuitable for SAC or Sgt's jobs in the Ops world. It is my experience that ops take in the LACs and turn them into fully functioning, capable, intelligent and ready Ops Bods. From the street. With no qualifications. How are ex controllers any different and shouldn't they give a better performance as they have already got all the niff naff stuff about the RAF sorted? It is also my experience that the FOA/FOM side of the trade is desperatley short of staff accross the board and I for one will take ANYBODY from ANY TRADE who wants to come in and make up the numbers following a remuster.

SSH,

Cheers for the top gen. Best to the family.....

 

[FOMz]

Lafyar, if someone has done all those months of training and passed all the intensive courses, having had to do aptitude tests up the ying-yang to get there, how are they unsuitable for SAC or Sgt's jobs in the Ops world. It is my experience that ops take in the LACs and turn them into fully functioning, capable, intelligent and ready Ops Bods. From the street. With no qualifications. How are ex controllers any different and shouldn't they give a better performance as they have already got all the niff naff stuff about the RAF sorted? It is also my experience that the FOA/FOM side of the trade is desperatley short of staff accross the board and I for one will take ANYBODY from ANY TRADE who wants to come in and make up the numbers following a remuster.

So you're suggesting that a chopped DE controller is allowed automatic remuster to FOM? I think not old son - It'll never happen. Just because they've done OASC and JATCC doesn't make them gods gift to Ops. It puts them trade knowledge wise on par with an SAC IMHO. I can assure you, if it happened, I know off a certain Wobbling Orange trhat would be on the receiving end of a lot of letters and phonecalls from long serving FOMs and Cpl FOAs......

 

[Dan Dare]

I sit corrected

I sit corrected

Fair point FOMZ, not necessarily remuster as a FOM. Didn't think that through too well ansd didn't make the point exact enough. I stand by my point that we need more people and if they want to remuster to SAC I'll still have them. Bums on seats is what we need at the moment.

 

[Chaka]

Anybody know what the plan is for failed JATCC DE Sgt's? They can't just bimble back to OASC (like the failed Zobs) and pick up a Bluntie job can they?DT_Xtremez_21:

P45 maybe?DT_Xtremez_42:

 

[SirSaltyHelmet]

How will it work if, after graduation, they decide they don'y like controlling will they be booted out or moved into the FOM side to take jobs away from more than capable people waiting for promotion?
This has happened with the FOA(ATC) system and as per usual the Ops side of the house is left with people completely unsuitable for an SACs Ops job let alone a Sgt post.
The sooner the two sides of TG9 are separated the better, at any unit over 50% of TG9 jobs are located in Operations environments but primacy is always given to ATC.

You mean to tell me that an FOA(ATC) has passed JATCC, decided he has had enough and then gone to the FOM side?

Is that what you are saying?

Cheers DD, check emails

 

[vim_fuego]

How come I'm post number one now and I wasn't this morning?

 

[SirSaltyHelmet]

Think someone has spilt the thread from the recruiting Q&A. It has confused me a little too

 

[lafyar kokov]

SSH,
I've heard about this on the "friend of a friend" rumour mill, regarding at least two people. You do, however, seem to be much better placed to tell me if this is indeed the case. I am more than happy to be corrected!

 

[SirSaltyHelmet]

SSH,
I've heard about this on the "friend of a friend" rumour mill, regarding at least two people. You do, however, seem to be much better placed to tell me if this is indeed the case. I am more than happy to be corrected!

It can't happen to FOA(ATC) - Fast trackers. However, there are instances were people have done it but they were not FOA(ATC) - One in particular is a particularly fine FOM and posts on here.

 

[lafyar kokov]

Thanks for that, I shall jump back in my box and firmly seal the lid!!

 

[FOMz]

[ is a particularly fine FOM and posts on here

Thats not fcuking me then!!!!!!!!
DT_Xtremez_14:

 

[R_Squared]

Anybody know what the plan is for failed JATCC DE Sgt's? They can't just bimble back to OASC (like the failed Zobs) and pick up a Bluntie job can they?DT_Xtremez_21:

P45 maybe?DT_Xtremez_42:

As I understand it, they would have to complete OASC & JATCC succesfully to stay in at all.

However, that said, if they have passed OASC & scored well in their aptitude tests I suppose they could quite easily lower themselves to NCA.

 

[Chaka]

However, that said, if they have passed OASC & scored well in their aptitude tests I suppose they could quite easily lower themselves to NCA.

DT_Xtremez_42: Oh crap..........now that would be a tragedy, reselected to aircrew Sgt, poor sods.

Still it's a good incentive to pass JATCC!

 

[Hmmmm]

I think it is fair to presume that reselection would follow a similar process to that of NCA.

Oh, and congratulations for regurgitating the Opsie vs ATC argument in such short order.

 

[SirSaltyHelmet]

Think you guys missed most of the conversation