DCAE ? Cosford

[Tin basher]

manage[/B] their course as is placed in them to deliver their course.

Well said PSBM your second point in particular has bashed around from pillar to post ad naseum. Seems some members of the management chain don't trust JNCO's, SNCO's or ex-SNCO's to know when the troops have had enough and could do with an early stack.
For me the bench mark should be
1) Have the students recieved the correct information.
2) Is the course pass mark within expected norms.

If both of the above have been met who cares what time they knocked off. If however they are stood down early most days, given long lunches and tea breaks and then show a lack of knowledge and fail in droves then the instructor should expect to be marking time on the carpet to explain why.

 

[Hu Jardon]

Well said PSBM your second point in particular has bashed around from pillar to post ad naseum. Seems some members of the management chain don't trust JNCO's, SNCO's or ex-SNCO's to know when the troops have had enough and could do with an early stack.

Thats 'cos the ignorant self important tw@ts have never weilded a piece of chalk or a blackboard duster in anger themselves, to say nothing of a spanner or a fekkin hammer::

 

[MrMasher]

Fair point mate, and one which I agree with 100%. I've been involved in just this argument from both sides of the managerial fence for a good number of years now, and its one which goes around and around.

From an instructors point of view, one of the biggest bones of contention is the lack of remit they are given to conduct their course in whichever way they see fit and, most importantly, to be able to knock the training day on the head when they detect that a saturation point has been reached. This applies particularly to the phase 3 courses where everyone naturally wants to make their way home at the weekends and Fridays can become a major headache because, as an instructor, you know that there will be an inevitable push from your course to get an early stack, a push which becomes the main focus of their attention and naturally so.

From the other side, the management argument usually runs along the lines of...
You are given, say, 120 periods (there are 8 periods in a day, 40 in a week so 120 would be a 3 week course) in which to deliver this course. If you are letting your students go on Friday afternoons then that equates to 12 periods, or 1 1/2 days, of training time not used. 1 1/2 days that could be knocked off the length of the course to send personnel back to their units where they are badly needed. The sight of students knocking off early, or an unsually quiet station and empty carpark on a Friday afternnon, therefore sends the senior management into a bit of a tizzy and, trust me mate, its the FIRST accusation they throw at you when you or your students comment that the course is a bit 'rushed' and tight for time.
The shortened breaks and lunchtime thing doesn't wash either although, as a student, I know there's nothing more infuriating than sitting on your hands during what seem to be unecessarily protracted breaks in the training day. The argument used is usually one of protecting the instructors who need the breaks from the classroom even though they are, more often than not, totally unconcerned themselves.

The gold-plated solution would be to write Friday afternoons out of the training timetable altogether for phase 3 students at least - it aint going to happen DT_Xtremez_31:

The next best solution would be for the same trust and faith to be placed in the instructional staff to manage their course as is placed in them to deliver their course.

Thanks for that well constructed reply.
I see what you mean and my comments have been aimed roundaboutly (real word??) at that.
This thread could easily degenerate back into the old argument of do ranks really get the responsibility they should?
I think its a shame, Cosford does have alot of good instructors but they are held back in their style somewhat by the management.
It should be down to an instructor to assess how the class is doing and whether there is scope for early stacks etc.
Why does a grown up have to justify it to a statistician?
I have to admit that every course I have done at Cosford could easily have been chopped by at least 20% timewise.
Most people dont want to be there on a course, so why make them be there any longer than they have to be and then add insult to injury by making the Friday drive home a nightmare?
Flexi-time, thats the way!

 

[propersplitbrainme]

Thanks for that well constructed reply.
I see what you mean and my comments have been aimed roundaboutly (real word??) at that.

No problem mate, its best to try and explain and discuss these things rationally and we can see it from both sides trust me.

As a kind of finale, I'd also add that the needs and wants of the students on a course are not always the same.
Some resign themselves to the fact that they are going to be at Cosford for a given period of time and even appreciate the time away from the hurly burly that is their primary job.
Others hate being away from home on a course and want the whole experience to be completed as quickly as possible.

Experience tells us that by half 3 or 4 in the afternoon, especially if its a warm day, you may as welll be talking to 16 orangutans because nothing is going in, so I usually knock it on the head if I can.
The 'resigned to being here' lot are glad of the respite from the classroom and take chill pill, go and watch telly, read the paper before tea or even take a ride around the local area to see whats here.
The 'want to get it over as quickly as possible lot' don't ever say anything when we finish early in the week, but have been known to stab us in the back on the course critiques - 'knocked off early on a few days, could have shortened the course' they say. Cheers lads DT_Xtremez_25:
We even had one guy who counted up all the minutes (yes minutes in 5s and 10s) when a lesson finished early, or they had a 'time-out' during which the instructor showed some funny vids or something, added them all up and presented the total to the FS who was doing the end of course debrief as time that could be knocked off the end of the course.
This sort of thing doesn't help a bit and makes you wary of any repercussions if you go easy on your troops.

So, as a word of warning, PLEASE watch what you write on those critiques if you are given one (and you should be BTW). Your words could come back to haunt your colleagues attending later courses, or ven you if you have to come back on another one DT_Xtremez_09: