Commissioning from the ranks, how hard?

[matty1012]

Hi all,

I am just wondering how hard is it. What is the most common airman rank to be commissioned from, SAC,CPL?

My Father used to serve and he said "often people who have been commissioned from the ranks end up higher than officers who have joined from school/university". eg. Squadron Leader or wing commander and above.

What do you guys think of this?

Cheers

 

[Stevienics]

Hi all,

I am just wondering how hard is it. What is the most common airman rank to be commissioned from, SAC,CPL?

My Father used to serve and he said "often people who have been commissioned from the ranks end up higher than officers who have joined from school/university". eg. Squadron Leader or wing commander and above.

What do you guys think of this?

Cheers

I would have to say it is Cpl, for the simple reason that they are senior and young enough to be able to display to the board some experience and leadership capability, and have the enthusiasm for the service to go through with it. My guess that at this rank this is where those three factors sum to the highest result.

That said, once you end up in a hangar with the others, no-one has a clue if you are a corporal or a gay comedian from blackpool - its the individual only they see.

 

[Barch]

A mate of mine spent 6 years in the ranks, took his commission and is now an AVM.

 

[84scouse]

what if...

what if...

This is something I'd like to consider in a few years' time. What I'd like to know is, what if you get onto IOT but then fail for some reason, are you out of the air force altogether or is it back to the ranks with you? Also, I'm in SFA now with my husband in Lincolnshire. (Assuming we're still in Lincs at the time of my application) would we be able to keep our MQ whilst I was in IOT?

Cheers folks! DT_Xtremez_17:

 

[Keyser Söze]

This is something I'd like to consider in a few years' time. What I'd like to know is, what if you get onto IOT but then fail for some reason, are you out of the air force altogether or is it back to the ranks with you? Also, I'm in SFA now with my husband in Lincolnshire. (Assuming we're still in Lincs at the time of my application) would we be able to keep our MQ whilst I was in IOT?

Cheers folks! DT_Xtremez_17:

if you fail IOT you're back where you started from (ie at your previous substantive rank) and get posted to wherever. On a wider note I would encourage anyone who fancies a punt....to go for it, and give it your all (just make sure you are totally committed). ps don't listen to any detractors you may have,,they're the ones who dont have the balls, ability or determination to do it (or any other new challenge) themselves.

I would agree that probably cpl is the most popular rank, however there s nothing to stop anyone from applying sooner or later for that matter. The later its left will impact upon the ability to really progress up the food chain though. I know it can happen, but promotion from the ranks does nt really equate to a senior rank/appointment, my experience would say that to reach wg cdr is really good, whilst anything above is exceptional, it is generally because they started the commissioning route late in their careers

 

[spike7451]

Old Armourer mate of mine did it,but he was a Chiefy when he went over to the dark side...

 

[Stevienics]

would we be able to keep our MQ whilst I was in IOT?

Noting that this was not addressed specifically, the general policy is not to upset the domestic boat more than is reasonable. Let me put it another way, when you are in IOT as an ex-ranker, you are basically a derivation of "Schroedinger's cat". You ain't in either permanent state - commissioned or otherwise.

Because of that - all channels are left open.

 

[84scouse]

Thanks Keyzer that's good to hear! Stevienics... sorry for being a bit dim here, but I have no clue what you're on about! :raf:

 

[taz01]

Spike , I think I know the chiefy in question.....Ahem !

 

[Stevienics]

Thanks Keyzer that's good to hear! Stevienics... sorry for being a bit dim here, but I have no clue what you're on about! :raf:

If you are in MQs before you go there, you can keep it. Because you might pass or fail, nothing changes on the domestic front.

 

[vim_fuego]

To twist a common saying to fit my purpose 'Do it whilst your an SAC and know everything...'

On a serious note if you are suitably qualified and it feels right and you've read all the great advice in our recruitment forum and on Prunes commissioning thread and still it's right then go for it...cos you never know what's around the corner in 6 months, a year or when ever that will put the kaibosh on it such as an injury, kids or illness. Just like the gym it's easier to find reasons not to than it is to get on with it...

 

[84scouse]

Thanks, Stevienics and Vim. I'll think about it some more... while I'm at the gym! DT_Xtremez_28:

 

[Summer]

Good luck to you!

Commissioning from the ranks seems a hell of a lot more common in the Royal Air Force than it does here in the Army. (I'm thinking that leaves me wide open to some obvious jokes!)

Joke aside though, what are the requirements for a Junior Rank applying to commission? As far as I can see, we are talking 5 A-C at GCSE inclusive of English and Maths. The RAF Careers FAQs for civilian applicants are rather daunting where it mentions A level requirements and the weight of having good grades.

 

[Warwick Hunt]

Good luck to you!

Commissioning from the ranks seems a hell of a lot more common in the Royal Air Force than it does here in the Army. (I'm thinking that leaves me wide open to some obvious jokes!)

Joke aside though, what are the requirements for a Junior Rank applying to commission? As far as I can see, we are talking 5 A-C at GCSE inclusive of English and Maths. The RAF Careers FAQs for civilian applicants are rather daunting where it mentions A level requirements and the weight of having good grades.

For JRs, you are looking at having 5 GCSEs or equivalents (English, Maths and 3 others at Grade C or above (except the aptitude based branches whereby you require a B at Maths)). However, the further up the rank structure you go, the entry requirements lower. That said, it will always hold you in good stead to be as qualified as possible. The A level requirements are aimed at direct entrants into service as opposed to those who are applying from within.

The issue with the Army and commissioning is the regimental system lets down good and promising soldiers. Indeed there are still regiments in the Army (I'm thinking especially Household Div soldiers from HCav, Guards, etc and other RAC units though it's not limited to them) who scoff at the idea of anyone being commissioned from the ranks other than SNCOs on LE commissions, mainly because it interferes with their respective Officers' Mess gene pools. Before ORs can expect to be given proper encouragement to commission and show what they're made of, the Army needs to move into the 21st Century and start treating its people properly and giving them the opportunity to prove themselves and further their careers, instead of being let down by generations of stuffiness, snobishness and downright abuse of class.

That said, if you'd tried harder at school, you could have been in the RAF and be given a real opportunity with us instead........DT_Xtremez_19:

 

[Summer]

For JRs, you are looking at having 5 GCSEs or equivalents (English, Maths and 3 others at Grade C or above (except the aptitude based branches whereby you require a B at Maths)). However, the further up the rank structure you go, the entry requirements lower. That said, it will always hold you in good stead to be as qualified as possible. The A level requirements are aimed at direct entrants into service as opposed to those who are applying from within.

Thanks for that, very useful information. That's pretty much as I thought and same as the requirements for the Army.

The issue with the Army and commissioning is the regimental system lets down good and promising soldiers. Indeed there are still regiments in the Army (I'm thinking especially Household Div soldiers from HCav, Guards, etc and other RAC units though it's not limited to them) who scoff at the idea of anyone being commissioned from the ranks other than SNCOs on LE commissions, mainly because it interferes with their respective Officers' Mess gene pools. Before ORs can expect to be given proper encouragement to commission and show what they're made of, the Army needs to move into the 21st Century and start treating its people properly and giving them the opportunity to prove themselves and further their careers, instead of being let down by generations of stuffiness, snobishness and downright abuse of class.

Well... Certainly in my Corps I haven't experienced any 'scoffing' or too much toffee-ness. The Army are definitely behind the curve though on encouraging development, although the Royal Navy and Royal Air Force do seem to attract different types.

That said, if you'd tried harder at school, you could have been in the RAF and be given a real opportunity with us instead........DT_Xtremez_19:

Excellent! I could also be throwing my rounds at the targets on a 25m range!

 

[Warwick Hunt]

Thanks for that, very useful information. That's pretty much as I thought and same as the requirements for the Army.



Well... Certainly in my Corps I haven't experienced any 'scoffing' or too much toffee-ness. The Army are definitely behind the curve though on encouraging development, although the Royal Navy and Royal Air Force do seem to attract different types.



Excellent! I could also be throwing my rounds at the targets on a 25m range!

If you were looking at achieving a cross-transfer, your first port of call is the RAF desk in the AFCO just to get a feel of the lie of the land. They will advise of when to approach your RCMO to put the wheels in motion from your side. Bear in mind that a lot of RCMOs don't usually put requests to transfer at the top of their in trays and a lot of the time, delays in the timescales of the process are of their doing.

Also - and I apologise if it seems like I'm teaching you to suck eggs - there are only certain branches that require solely the GCSE requirement. Several require degrees and other specialist qualifications. As I said, get as qualified as possible for the branch you want - you can't be too qualified for service.

Good luck.

 

[Summer]

Many thanks again for the advice.

I'm still on the case, hopefully I can get the ball rolling properly this year in between all the other commitments!

I'm predominately looking at the Provost / Sy Branch. OASC looks ok, the challenge will be jumping through all the hoops on the Army side of things to get to that stage. That said, in the long run I will be in a better place.

Summer

 

[AlphaKennyThing]

Many thanks again for the advice.

I'm still on the case, hopefully I can get the ball rolling properly this year in between all the other commitments!

I'm predominately looking at the Provost / Sy Branch. OASC looks ok, the challenge will be jumping through all the hoops on the Army side of things to get to that stage. That said, in the long run I will be in a better place.

Summer

Hi!

Just dragging this thread back to the fore for it has started to ask quite a few questions I'm hunting answers for. I always intended to get a commission in the RAF, but alas, due to wanting a quick fix to an unfavourable situation (women, bleh) I went for the army so I could join up as quickly as possible. I chose a fairly decent job in the army, but as much as I like the job, I'm really regretting the fact I never went for my original goal, and now's as good a time as ever.

I'm aware that in the army the qualifications required to commission from the ranks is reduced somewhat, and same for the RAF (role depending, as has been said in this thread), but what about if you're going cross service? Do the qualifications required to commission from the ranks remain the same regardless of where you're going from and to in terms of service?

Going for a commission is my main aim now, I've got my heart set on it, so no matter what I need to do in terms of quals I'll get it done. I've got the UCAS points but I'm short a C at A Level, so will quickly top that up. I realised, unfortunately too late, that I'm pretty academic when I put the effort in, but decided I had better things to do when I was 18. If only people told you school was important...

Any help with regards to this would be superb. Many thanks in advance.

 

[Summer]

Just a little update on my 'progress'...

Looks like I'm going to be retaking my GCSE Maths in order to fulfill the requirements, once I've got that all in order then I shall be cracking on, in between a very busy year in the current job - I have questioned myself about wanting to do this over the past few months, and I'm feeling positive that I'm on the right path.

 

[Flybynight]

Just a little update on my 'progress'...

Looks like I'm going to be retaking my GCSE Maths in order to fulfill the requirements, once I've got that all in order then I shall be cracking on, in between a very busy year in the current job - I have questioned myself about wanting to do this over the past few months, and I'm feeling positive that I'm on the right path.

Good Luck! In my case it was SAC but I'm not going to go into details because it was too long ago and things have changed, and in any case I didn't intend spending my entire career in the Service. Somebody's going to get there and it won't be people who don't have a go.

Goaters who listen to 'The Archers' on R4 1900 Sun-Thur will know that Dan Hebden-Lloyd has just gone to Sandhurst with the intention of walloping donkeys and/or crashing tanks. He appears to be finding it hard going, not least his mother's nightly texts on the theme of "give up the nasty army, darling, and become a solicitor like your dead father".