Advice Needed - Shifts/Stand-downs & JPA

[mad_collie]

Does anyone know where the rules are laid down with respect to shiftworkers and stand-downs, when they submit leave passes?

It used to be in one of the scribbly APs, but seems to have disappeared.

The shifts at my place work (12 hr shifts) 2 days, 2 nights, 4 off.

The 4 days off used to be broken down as: 1st day - sleep; 2nd/3rd day - weekend; 4th day - stand-down.

JPA has no mechanism for this, and we constantly have to get HR to credit/debit days depending on when the time off period falls.

Any shineys/shift bosses seen where the rules are?

Thanks in advance - maybe DT_Xtremez_42:

 

[Get Tae]

Mad, I ain't a shiney but our admin guys on the Sqn have said before that there is no way this can be done on JPA, it all needs to be done by them as they are the only ones who can credit/sort out those days.

GT

 

[MingMong]

We still use paper leave passes here and let our admin sort it out.
As Get Tae said, it seems JPA can't handle shift workers.

 

[True Blue Jack]

Spot on. JPA just does not know what to do with shifties. One of my guys whose shift happened to fall over a weekend soon after JPA started wanted to put in a day's leave for the Sunday only. It just couldn't accept that people work at weekends. Luckily, the sqn I am on now does very little in the way of weekend work, 'cos sorting it out is a right royal pain in the 'arris.

 

[Humble Scribe]

To be honest, its not just the Stand-downs that JPA can't handle, its the whole leave/ILA balances/PH's/block leave/Authorised Absence etc etc that's totally fecked!! I don't know if you've seen the latest, but JPA is no longer calculating leave balances since last week until they can sort out the latest 'anomoly'!! FFS, leave is so bloody simple to manage but JPA has made it into a right bu99ers muddle that's almost impossible to understand. Look out for Shiney's having to manually manage leave as the latest JPA 'work-round!"

 

[PSFbeatch]

i work on a sqn where they work 2 days 2 nights 4 off, ive had to take my guys off jpa and put them onto manual whilst i try and figure out a work round. The JSP 760 is the new rules on leave, not much in there about shifts about a paragraph of the usual joint blah!

 

[PSF Angel]

Why don't you just get them to put in manual leave passes after their standown and then just chuck 'em in a PAYD unit for the time they were off? At least it will get them their food money back.

 

[Humble Scribe]

Why don't you just get them to put in manual leave passes after their standown and then just chuck 'em in a PAYD unit for the time they were off? At least it will get them their food money back.

Not exactly a 'text-book' answer Angel and very labour intensive but if you've got the time (and staff) to do it.........

 

[PSFbeatch]

Why don't you just get them to put in manual leave passes after their standown and then just chuck 'em in a PAYD unit for the time they were off? At least it will get them their food money back.

cos its a nightmare to get them back on to normal arrangements.

 

[True Blue Jack]

Not exactly a 'text-book' answer Angel and very labour intensive but if you've got the time (and staff) to do it.........

It's got to be quicker than running a manual system. Our guys are doing both JPA and manual. Their JPA absence request gets approved by their Snec and (normally) comes off their ILA balance. The manual form then goes to the FS who uses them to sort out his manning plots.

And JPA was supposed to make all our lives easier?

 

[tommo9999]

It also doesn't allow for travelling time from Germany. They'll fix it, but it'll be a while.

 

[True Blue Jack]

It also doesn't allow for travelling time from Germany. They'll fix it, but it'll be a while.

What travelling time from Germany? You shouldn't get travelling time unless it takes you 8 hours from the time you land in the UK. The Chf Clk at Brunnsum is far too lenient, or does he just know who's favourite nephew you are? LOLDT_Xtremez_28:

 

[vim_fuego]

What we had to do here was put in the period of stand down as leave...then e-mail the head cheese at HR (Chief clerk in old money) telling him when we were on stand down and the reason for it (like it ever changed) and he should re-credit our accounts with the leave used...

It got so confusing that I was never sure if my leave was ever right...a total shambles springs to mind...

 

[PSFbeatch]

It's got to be quicker than running a manual system. Our guys are doing both JPA and manual. Their JPA absence request gets approved by their Snec and (normally) comes off their ILA balance. The manual form then goes to the FS who uses them to sort out his manning plots.

And JPA was supposed to make all our lives easier?

and what about the days JPA takes that are meant to be stand downs???

 

[True Blue Jack]

and what about the days JPA takes that are meant to be stand downs???

Not a problem on my sqn, fortunately. We have a day and night shift, but it is rare for them to work weekends.

 

[PSFbeatch]

Not a problem on my sqn, fortunately. We have a day and night shift, but it is rare for them to work weekends.

its a big problem on mine sadly, and not something easily worked around!

 

[mad_collie]

OK, we know that JPA cant handle shift workers (another oversight that the CinC didn't want to dwell on).

Does anybody know where it states in the AP that you are entitled to 4 days off for working the 48 hours on shift?

 

[Disillusioned]

Do you put leave in for your four days off? Do you have some sort of standby commitment. I do a similar shift pattern and we just put leave in for the shift days, when they fall over a weekend which JPA obviously can't deal with we add dates onto the front or back of the shift days so that JPA takes the right amount of leave for the shift days. Then in the comments block we just write a quick sentence about which days are actually required off and why the dates are different.

 

[True Blue Jack]

OK, we know that JPA cant handle shift workers (another oversight that the CinC didn't want to dwell on).

Does anybody know where it states in the AP that you are entitled to 4 days off for working the 48 hours on shift?

Shift patterns (and the standdown periods that follow) are all a matter of local management, so you won't find it in any AP. Try Sqn standing orders.

 

[mad_collie]

Shift patterns (and the standdown periods that follow) are all a matter of local management, so you won't find it in any AP. Try Sqn standing orders.

I eventually found then gen I needed.

The bits from the AP3392 have been superceded by JSP760.

Fook all guidance really, so I can carry on doing what I've been doing. As you said TBJ, it is all a local management decision.

Thanks for the replies everybody.