What's the point of the RAF- Radio 4

[fullersh1t]

Anyone else hearing this crapaganda?

Best bit so far is the bit where the journo says that he has never met anyone in any of the 3 services who wouldn't be very happy to serve in an integrated force (read army).

Clearly never spoken to anyone in the RAF then.....

 

[Billy Whizz]

Exactly - i think the fear of 40,000 PVR's is what stopped them proposing it at the SDR!

 

[may the FOMs be with you]

Anyone else hearing this crapaganda?

Best bit so far is the bit where the journo says that he has never met anyone in any of the 3 services who wouldn't be very happy to serve in an integrated force (read army).

Clearly never spoken to anyone in the RAF then.....

Almost fell of my seat when I heard that bit.

 

[Fat2at]

Anyone else hearing this crapaganda?

Best bit so far is the bit where the journo says that he has never met anyone in any of the 3 services who wouldn't be very happy to serve in an integrated force (read army).

Clearly never spoken to anyone in the RAF then.....

I think his quote should be shortened to just read "Best bit so far is the bit where the journo says that he has never met anyone in any of the 3 services "

What a stroker. There are pros and cons for any idea that's been put forward but everyone I know is strongly defensive their own service and would sooner not lose their own identity.

 

[Sospan]

You can listen to it here...

 

[smallesttradeintheRAF]

This was probably the most 'interesting' talk from the media so far. There were many pertinent points, specifically about fast jets and transport. As for possible involvement with cyberwarfare then that could provide a major opportunity for the RAF.

As for the rest? We know that a lot of RAF deployments are to fulfil Army slots, working within the Army. With the exception of CCAST/MERT why do we need doctors, nurses, medics, AHPs? Why do we need three separate medical commands in the forces? Logs can be taken on by the Army, as can chefs, MPs, Admin and PTIs to name but a few.

Yes its controversial but it would save money and have everyone singing on the same hymn sheet.

By the way, I've been in 12 years now and, although I love my job (no really I do) and have enjoyed that time, see no future for medical trades, with the exception of CCAST and MERT in the RAF. I can't/won't say anything about aircraft as I've have never, and will never work with them or even within 100 miles of them.

 

[Realist78]

We should learn from others, Canadians tried jointery for nearly 20 years, didn't work, reverted to 3 services.

 

[MrMasher]

Lets not mince our words, we can't combine the army and navy and hand over the aircraft. The army and navy are crap at flying!

How about a few quotes?




Not to have an adequate air force in the present state of the world is to compromise the foundations of national freedom and independence.

— Winston Churchill, House of Commons, 14 March 1933.


The development of air power in its broadest sense, and including the development of all means of combating missiles that travel through the air, whether fired or dropped, is the first essential to our survival in war.

— Viscount Hugh M. Trenchard, 1946


The Navy can lose us the war, but only the Air Force can win it. The fighters are our salvation, but the bombers alone provide the means of victory.

— Prime Minister Winston Churchill


The country will some day pay for the stupidities of those who were in the majority on this commission. They know as much about the future of aviation as they do about the sign writing of the Aztecs.

— James H. Doolittle, at the time an Air Corps Reservist and racing pilot, comments to a reporter regards the presidential committee of inquiry that did not support establishment of an air force separate from the army, 1934.


The function of the Army and Navy in any future war will be to support the dominant air arm.

— General James H. Doolittle, in a speech at Georgetown University, 1949.


Is it likely that an aircraft carrier or a cruise missile is going to find a person?

— US Defense Secretary Donald H Rumsfeld, regards questions on an air war to kill Osama bin Laden, 23 September 2001.

 

[Drill Bit]

Lets not mince our words, we can't combine the army and navy and hand over the aircraft. The army and navy are crap at flying!

How about a few quotes?




Not to have an adequate air force in the present state of the world is to compromise the foundations of national freedom and independence.

— Winston Churchill, House of Commons, 14 March 1933.


The development of air power in its broadest sense, and including the development of all means of combating missiles that travel through the air, whether fired or dropped, is the first essential to our survival in war.

— Viscount Hugh M. Trenchard, 1946


The Navy can lose us the war, but only the Air Force can win it. The fighters are our salvation, but the bombers alone provide the means of victory.

— Prime Minister Winston Churchill


The country will some day pay for the stupidities of those who were in the majority on this commission. They know as much about the future of aviation as they do about the sign writing of the Aztecs.

— James H. Doolittle, at the time an Air Corps Reservist and racing pilot, comments to a reporter regards the presidential committee of inquiry that did not support establishment of an air force separate from the army, 1934.


The function of the Army and Navy in any future war will be to support the dominant air arm.

— General James H. Doolittle, in a speech at Georgetown University, 1949.


Is it likely that an aircraft carrier or a cruise missile is going to find a person?

— US Defense Secretary Donald H Rumsfeld, regards questions on an air war to kill Osama bin Laden, 23 September 2001.

“If we lose the war in the air we lose the war and we lose it quickly.”


Field Marshall Montgomery

 

[mightyhunter]

"RAF in Army uniform.."
Since when did CS95 be only for the Army? I know it's Combat Soldier but it's uniform worn throughout the 3 Services.
Quentin Letts is sounding a right c***!

 

[Get Tae]

I used to have respect for Tim Collins, now I think he is just a ****. As for jurno's well thay are all a bunch of erses anyway. AND as for ****ty useless ex-nav git well I feel sorry he was shot down but you dont hear/see his pilot on tv all the time acting like a gimp. Nicholls, FECK OFF YOU USELESS GIT.

And as for the Army git complaining that an airman (god forbid) be the COD what a gimp. I hate the army they smell, are thick and are only jelaous they didnt join the RAF because they didnt have any qualifications.......

 

[Ex-Bay]

I was listening on iPlayer this morning at 04.30 following a spell of insomnia.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b00td8zs/Whats_the_Point_of_..._Series_3_The_RAF/

The conclusions are only made in the last few seconds..
We DO need an Air Force.

 

[MAINJAFAD]

“If we lose the war in the air we lose the war and we lose it quickly.”


Field Marshall Montgomery

Happened to Monty in France during 1940, most of the rest of the war he won because of the RAF winning the air battle in some shape of form (though the weather and bad comms did screw up Market Garden).

 

[Drill Bit]

I have to admit; I'm extremely disappointment with the amount of biased commentary, not only on this R4 programme but also on numerous other reports on the same topic.

One could expect a balanced arguement from the media but from what I've read or heard so far this arguement seems heavily skewed toward the 'anti-RAF brigade'. For the entire 29 mins of the R4 programme we had less than 5 minutes discussing why we shouldn't get rid of the RAF; 2 of those minutes from an ex-nav discussing RAF drill!

I'm so glad quentin found time to state that the RAF had shrunk to a size smaller than the US Marine Reserve but failed to point out that we are still a larger force than the RN. It's not just R4 either; being stationed overseas I have the pleasure (ahem) of watching BFBS reports and again I can't believe the amount of bias reporting on this subject. In fact, I'm yet to see one serving or ex airman on BFBS Reports discussing this subject; it's usually the same old anti-RAF suspects:Gen Guthrie, Lord West, Col Kemp. Lazy, lazy reporting.

Surprising really given that the previous three names mentioned are probably fully aware that the reason we lost so many servicemen during the Falklands was largely down to us having, at best, a favourable air situation.

TBH, I think all that has been demonstrated thus far is that the Army and the RN really have no idea about Air Power and its doctrine; had any Senior Army or Naval Officer shown a modicum of understanding of Air Power I'd be more worried.

 

[MrMasher]

Good post Drill Bit.

Perhaps we're a bit blinkered? What if they fully understand Air Power? The calls aren't to scrap all aircraft, the calls are to absorb them into the Army and RN.

 

[Realist78]

Listened to it on iplayer last night, what a reporting shambles. Quentin Letts should know better, totally biased and inaccurate. RAF bods walking around in Army uniform? Why don't these w@nkers do a bit of prep before they spout utter sh1t. As for that useless t1t Nicholls, he's an expert on nothing, it's great having him on our side when all he does is laugh about being crap at drill.

 

[vim_fuego]

Anyone else hearing this crapaganda?

Best bit so far is the bit where the journo says that he has never met anyone in any of the 3 services who wouldn't be very happy to serve in an integrated force (read army).

Clearly never spoken to anyone in the RAF then.....

I met one yesterday! I was goading a PTI with some banter about being in the firing line for cutbacks due to the SDR...He asked what an SDR is...I look at my colleague and raise an eyebrow then explain...He states that he enjoys military life so much he'd serve for any of the 3 forces...10 out of 10 for attitude but maybe needs to pick up a paper every now or then!

 

[252]

I hate the army they smell, are thick and are only jelaous they didnt join the RAF because they didnt have any qualifications.......[/QUOTE]


When i had just turned 17(1979)i proudly informed my grandfather who had been a BQRMS(Battery Quartermaster Regimental Sergeant Major)in the Royal Artillery during WW2 that i was going to join the Army.

Instead of getting his blessing as i had expected he told me not to be a tw@t and join the RAF if i could.

His logic? he had worked Airfield Defense(pre RAF Regiment)in the early part of the war and told me an Airmans life was a far more civilised affair.

He was right!!.

 

[Drill Bit]

Good post Drill Bit.

Perhaps we're a bit blinkered? What if they fully understand Air Power? The calls aren't to scrap all aircraft, the calls are to absorb them into the Army and RN.

That's true we are probably biased to and I know the plans aren't to scrap all aircraft. And if they did truly understand Air Power, especially at the strategic level; then I'd suggest they probably wouldn't be asking the question 'What's the Point of the RAF' or at least they'd certainly know the answers to that question.

To go to the extreme; the RN is the only force that can fight on all 3 fronts so why not merge the Army and the RAF into the RN? The answer being that the army are bigger, have the loudest voice and swing the biggest stick; it doesn't mean they are right though.

The New Zealand Air Force was effectively disbanded and merged into the NZDF; that turned out to be a poor decision.

 

[vim_fuego]

That's true we are probably biased to and I know the plans aren't to scrap all aircraft. And if they did truly understand Air Power, especially at the strategic level; then I'd suggest they probably wouldn't be asking the question 'What's the Point of the RAF' or at least they'd certainly know the answers to that question.

To go to the extreme; the RN is the only force that can fight on all 3 fronts so why not merge the Army and the RAF into the RN? The answer being that the army are bigger, have the loudest voice and swing the biggest stick; it doesn't mean they are right though.

The New Zealand Air Force was effectively disbanded and merged into the NZDF; that turned out to be a poor decision.

Canada did the same thing with similar poor results...